US Pulling Out of Paris Climate Accord

[♪alt13]

Well that's about 3,000,000 people and at $18,000 per person, that is about 54,000,000,000. That's a lot of money to give to people who dont really need it.

Now subtract most of SSI, unnecessary programs, and the hidden costs associated with eztreme poverty(crime and imprisonment, poor educational outcomes, etc)

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No. the whole point is that everyone gets it. No conditions. No litmus test. Nothing. I don't even like using age as a cut-off.

Either way, let's say the cutoff is 200k. That's what? 1% of the population? It wouldn't make much of a difference to the cost of the plan.

And when you say no age cut-off, do you mean as soon as you are born you are making 18K a year?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Now subtract most of SSI, unnecessary programs, and the hidden costs associated with eztreme poverty(crime and imprisonment, poor educational outcomes, etc)

Why are we subtracting that exactly? What does the %1 not getting the 18K benefit have to do with any of that?

 

[♪alt13]

The goal of the 18K is to help people who cant get jobs because of automation or people who have poverty line paying jobs not be broke, right? I dont think it should be for the upper-middle class who are able to support themselves.

Above a certain threshold it won't matter anyway because they will be paying more in taxes than the benefit that they recieve. There would be some income level where taxes made it even steven.

 

[♪alt13]

Why are we subtracting that exactly? What does the %1 not getting the 18K benefit have to do with any of that?

SSI was envisioned as a safety net. We would be replacing it with a new net. You can easily phase it in. If someone currently on SSI would get more than the UBI then they should continue to get that. Someone who would get less could elect to take the UBI. Young people would not pay into SSI. Instead they get the UBI and may elect to save whatever they want for their retirement.

 

[Siro]

And when you say no age cut-off, do you mean as soon as you are born you are making 18K a year?

That'd be my preference. I'm at work and I don't have time for a proper reply, but if I remember correctly, the Swiss wanted $30k for every adult and half for every child.

Read up, or watch a couple of videos on it, so you'd understand why it must 1- be universal and unconditional. 2- enough to enable you to live a basic life without having to work.

And 18k is too low. Might be a nice start, but we need to aim for at least half the median income.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That'd be my preference. I'm at work and I don't have time for a proper reply, but if I remember correctly, the Swiss wanted $30k for every adult and half for every child.

Read up, or watch a couple of videos on it, so you'd understand why it must 1- be universal and unconditional. 2- enough to enable you to live a basic life without having to work.

And 18k is too low. Might be a nice start, but we need to aim for at least half the median income.

So does the money the kids make go in a private account that can't be opened until a certain age or can their parents control it?

 

[Beantown]

Climate change and big oil subsidies aside......


Pulling out of Paris seems like a VERY good idea!

 

[Keefe]

School systems would turn into Thunderdome.

 

[Keefe]

Now subtract most of SSI, unnecessary programs, and the hidden costs associated with eztreme poverty(crime and imprisonment, poor educational outcomes, etc)

Most of? I think this is far from the reality that would occur.

 

[♪alt13]

Most of? I think this is far from the reality that would occur.

IIRC the average SSI recipient receives around 13k per year. The max is around 25k

 

[Boris]

IIRC the average SSI recipient receives around 13k per year. The max is around 25k

Hell, even Boris knows how to make more then that off government. I get two grand a month in social security an disability. I get more in food snaps then I can ever eat so I give em to the illegals working the farms. The property I live on in a travel trailer is classified farmland so I pay almost nothing in property taxes. I fill my water tanks from a nearby park. I eat tons of fish an there are tons of local ponds in the state being stocked by taxpayer dollars. I get free disability bus passes.

I pay hardly nothing in taxes don't contribute to society other then the work I trade with neighbor farmers. Life is good an thank you all for buying my wifi. Maybe all get cable next so I can quit listening to Lockes screechy voice on am radio.

 

[infection]

Hell, even Boris knows how to make more then that off government. I get two grand a month in social security an disability. I get more in food snaps then I can ever eat so I give em to the illegals working the farms. The property I live on in a travel trailer is classified farmland so I pay almost nothing in property taxes. I fill my water tanks from a nearby park. I eat tons of fish an there are tons of local ponds in the state being stocked by taxpayer dollars. I get free disability bus passes.

I pay hardly nothing in taxes don't contribute to society other then the work I trade with neighbor farmers. Life is good an thank you all for buying my wifi. Maybe all get cable next so I can quit listening to Lockes screechy voice on am radio.

So have we confirmed that this is trout's Dutch parody account?

 

[Boris]

I forgot. I heat my heavily insulated trailer with piping hot rocks I heat by fire outside that I burn free BLM wood. I shop at Deseret Industries an buy bran new clothing for pennies so I don't look like no hobo. I got rich friends that travel a lot an they bring me all the extra shampoo an soap an they even request extra bottles. I buy bran new couches an such at yard sales every summer for around the fire an burn what good material in them every fall to.

Anyway, off to tend my wallnut trees an check the apple one too. Life is good.

[MENTION=631]ONE LOVE[/MENTION] Bunny came back!

 

[DutchJazzer]

[MENTION=3073]JustTheTip[/MENTION]

If between you and your wife the government gave your family 42k a year; would you stop working or continue to work so that you could afford an 84k lifestyle for your family?

it would devalue the currency even more!

meaning 42k would be wortth less than it is now!


money doesnt come out of thin air

 

[franklin]

That'd be my preference. I'm at work and I don't have time for a proper reply, but if I remember correctly, the Swiss wanted $30k for every adult and half for every child.

Read up, or watch a couple of videos on it, so you'd understand why it must 1- be universal and unconditional. 2- enough to enable you to live a basic life without having to work.

And 18k is too low. Might be a nice start, but we need to aim for at least half the median income.

You want to spend ten trillion dollars per year and don't expect any adverse consequences? And how in the world are you going to raise taxes on the rich high enough to come anywhere close to even 10% of that figure?

I'm sure alt has some magical band-aid solution.

 

[Siro]

You want to spend ten trillion dollars per year and don't expect any adverse consequences? And how in the world are you going to raise taxes on the rich high enough to come anywhere close to even 10% of that figure?

I'm sure alt has some magical band-aid solution.

Well, you'd have to roll all existing programs into it. I read that we can manage $800 if we rolled everything aside from Medicare and Medicade. To raise the rest, I assume you'd have to have some international tax framework that assures money that is being hoarded overseas (what's Apple at now? 250b?) can be taxed, as opposed to the current international race for lower and lower taxation. How beneficial would adding so much unused income to the middle have? I don't know, but I suspect it would have a profound effect on the economy.

 

[Keefe]

Well, you'd have to roll all existing programs into it. I read that we can manage $800 if we rolled everything aside from Medicare and Medicade. To raise the rest, I assume you'd have to have some international tax framework that assures money that is being hoarded overseas (what's Apple at now? 250b?) can be taxed, as opposed to the current international race for lower and lower taxation. How beneficial would adding so much unused income to the middle have? I don't know, but I suspect it would have a profound effect on the economy.

This sounds great but it will never happen. Ever. The rich make the rules. Do you really think they're going to let us **** them out of millions if not billions of dollars?

 

[Siro]

This sounds great but it will never happen. Ever. The rich make the rules. Do you really think they're going to let us **** them out of millions if not billions of dollars?

Right now? No, it's not happening. Eventually they'd have to when there are no longer enough people to buy the products of their companies.

 

[Keefe]

Right now? No, it's not happening. Eventually they'd have to when there are no longer enough people to buy the products of their companies.

My poor students own iPods. There will always be plenty of consumers to buy their products.