If states hand out free ID's why would you be against voter ID if it can fix even a slight problem?
Voter ID - Reasonable or Disenfranchising?
- Thread starter Scat
- Start date
If states hand out free ID's why would you be against voter ID if it can fix even a slight problem?
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Are you sure about that? I thought you had to register again when you move. Otherwise, how do they know where your polling location is and your precinct and all that? I guess you could say you aren't technically "registering" to vote when you move, but just notifying them, but it's basically the same thing.
As for the polling location, it varies by state. Some states require you to show your voter registration card, some ask you to verify your address, some even require ID.
There are a number of reasons why the cost of the ID isn't the only issue. For example, I saw some old lady in Wisconsin on tv a few weeks ago who was born in her home and never received a birth certificate. And as you may or may not know, a birth certificate is required to get an ID.
A social security card is also required to get an ID. Between the birth certificate and social security card, it could take weeks or even months to get an ID.
And some other people are just flat out against having an ID. You may think they're nuts or whatever, but I am of the opinion that we should not be required to have an ID. I'm not a "mark of the beast" nutjob about it, and I obviously have ID, but if someone wants to think an ID is the "mark of the beast" and refuse to own one, that is their right. And they shouldn't give up any other rights for it.
There are just way easier option to fix this alleged problem. Like I said, if the bank can approve you for a huge loan in 5 minutes after filling out a simple online form (or even over the phone) without ever seeing your ID, then the state should certainly be able to tell if you're dead or alive, and if you really live at the address you claim. And they should be able to do it even faster than a bank loan or credit application, with an even simpler form.
I'm not against it, I just don't think it's important.
I just want to say, the reason for my apathy probably has to do with being a voter in Utah. Let's just say, no matter what side you're on, Utah elections are seldom up in the air, especially for pres, so it doesn't feel like votes matter here. The decisions have already been made and the outcome is certain before any voting takes place.
I can understand the apathy. In Utah you are right. It will not make much difference. But what about places like Nevada, Ohio, Florida... Also it would have a much higher impact on local elections.
It seems like an easy fix and yet DC will get nothing done.
100% agree and will give rep
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Is this a large number relative to the number of votes cast? Is it systematic across time and place, or is it an isolated occurrence? Did it, or can it, swing elections? A raw number of 900 is not sufficient information to answer these questions.
Also, I think from a policy perspective, one must compare the tradeoffs involved with the benefit of increasing the accuracy of the vote by X% to the cost of disenfranchising (or making it substantially difficult to vote) of X number of the people. For example, if this law increased accuracy by, say 2%, but imposed insurmountable obstacles for 10,000 people to vote, is the tradeoff worth it? (Note also that disenfranchising people skews the vote also, by a potentially greater amount than voter fraud, but then, that's the purpose, isn't it?)
I don't have the answer, other than to say that the social benefit from such legislation its not self-evident on its face, regardless of its partisan political benefit. (I care about social benefit, not partisan political benefit.)
I do not feel that accurately reflects the bills on the table. It is, in my opinion, purely partisan spin.
These bills are providing free state IDs to those that for some reason cannot normaly acquire them. That right there should do away with the whole "disenfranchised" argument.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Do they also give a free birth certificate and free social security card? And what about people that either don't have a birth certificate or don't have the paperwork to get theirs?
And also, even for those people who have all their stuff together, if it takes several months to get all this stuff together, lots of people could miss their window and end not not being allowed to vote.
I haven't heard one single argument, from the left or right, against the bank style verification that seems to work for loans and credit checks (without ever seeing an ID).
Until some politician brings this up, I won't consider it a serious issue.
The right wants to require ID because they know a substantial portion of the left won't be able to vote. And the left hates it because they know lots of their constituents don't have ID.
If anyone really cared about fraud, the logical solution would be to do it like a bank where everyone can still vote without jumping through hoops. The left is happy because all of the eligible citizens still get to vote, and the right is happy because the fraud is eliminated.
Salty you are on ignore but I was not logged in and saw your post.
A few things.
1. Social Security cards are free so that not a factor
2. Personal responsibility. Maybe they should get off their asses and get started. We are not baby sitters
3. I could be persuaded to allowing a free BC to those that for reasonable reasons cannot afford to buy one
4. For those that do not have any papers of any kind. If they are US citizens than that should have an avenue in the bills to resolve that issue.
I am in favor of Voter ID laws but obviously there are concerns that would need to be addressed and resolved.
As for your bank verification system I'd ask you to explain it but I wont see your response so what is the point?
A few things.
1. Social Security cards are free so that not a factor
2. Personal responsibility. Maybe they should get off their asses and get started. We are not baby sitters
3. I could be persuaded to allowing a free BC to those that for reasonable reasons cannot afford to buy one
4. For those that do not have any papers of any kind. If they are US citizens than that should have an avenue in the bills to resolve that issue.
I am in favor of Voter ID laws but obviously there are concerns that would need to be addressed and resolved.
As for your bank verification system I'd ask you to explain it but I wont see your response so what is the point?
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Would you still believe that if you did not think it was reasonable to own a photo ID?
It's easy to say a photo ID should be required when you actually have one. But if you hated the thought of owning an ID for whatever reason, you would probably be in the camp that an ID should not be required in order to get your constitutional rights.