Welcome in the middle of rebuilding.
- Thread starter jazzfan1132
- Start date
SoberasHotRod
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This rebuild is different than what we are used to and for me personally it's a little uncomfortable. In the past our rebuild would rely on drafting well and developing young players. Our current rebuild is built around asset accumulation and reclamation projects. I think there is enough evidence to support the belief that we are stockpiling picks and young players to go after established stars.
I think in the current NBA environment this approach is logical, even if I don't really like it. Few stars make it to free agency. Signing an extension to get guaranteed money, and then asking out shortly thereafter has become almost acceptable. Ainge knows that it is only a matter of time before there is a star available that he can pair with Lauri and we just need to have the best salary matching options, young players, and draft picks to go get them.
Personally I enjoy watching a young team grow together and develop. I also enjoy watching team building and collecting parts that fit together. It will be exciting if we are able to pull of a trade for a legit star, but I think it will also feel a little hollow. I'm honestly a little down on this rebuild and this season.
I think in the current NBA environment this approach is logical, even if I don't really like it. Few stars make it to free agency. Signing an extension to get guaranteed money, and then asking out shortly thereafter has become almost acceptable. Ainge knows that it is only a matter of time before there is a star available that he can pair with Lauri and we just need to have the best salary matching options, young players, and draft picks to go get them.
Personally I enjoy watching a young team grow together and develop. I also enjoy watching team building and collecting parts that fit together. It will be exciting if we are able to pull of a trade for a legit star, but I think it will also feel a little hollow. I'm honestly a little down on this rebuild and this season.
jazzfan1132
Well-Known Member
and we were 9th at the end. Give a prediction and we will check it in April.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
Here is a different perspective to maybe inspire positivity:
Lets assume every iteration takes 10 years from start of the rebuild to the start of the next one, and the actual build up is 5 years and the window to achieve something is another 5 years. That is an oversimplification since every rebuild is different, but the point will stand.
If that is the case then you will get to see only 5-7 iterations depending on how young you start and how long you can maintain being an enthusiastic sports fan. Thats not a lot and its not even counting for the wasted efforts... the iterations that fail before they ever contend. And if you want to increase that count of total iterations, then you need to decide from which end would you rather take away the years... from the start or from the end?
Personally, I would rather jumpstart every rebuild with a 2-3 year build up window and see 5 years of competitive basketball than build up 5 years every time and then average only 2-3 years of being relevant. So even though I would often prefer a clean rebuild, I do still like the fact that I may get an "extra attempt" in my lifetime due to this accelerated rebuild.
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It's more like 3 and 3 than it is 5 and 5
FrenchJazzFa
Well-Known Member
We clearly for me short of at least 2 good players ( one star and another) to expect to be a contender. What i hope for this year is to have as much fun as we got a large part of the season looking at team play and see young players keep improving.
JazzJunkie
Well-Known Member
It's not like we got any worse. If anything we've improved. How did Miami get much better? The whiff on Dame and Jrue or when 2 of they're key bench guys left? What did Chicago do to be better? New Orleans should have said maybe healthy, but not better. Portland is the same after losing Dame?
Your logic confuses me my guy.
Tremendous Upside
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Let's keep one thing in mind: this is literally the only team in the NBA where starting Kris Dunn or THT at pg is something of a realistic option.
Dunn wouldn't make the final roster for most clubs and THT would be the 8th man.
That should tell you a lot about where we are.
Dunn wouldn't make the final roster for most clubs and THT would be the 8th man.
That should tell you a lot about where we are.
Handlogten's Heros
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I'm excited but share your thoughts on being uncomfortable with the plan. Not that its wrong. I think I have defended "the process" as the most reliable way to build a contender in a market like Utah. None of the paths are particularly reliable. I'm fine with the current plan (or whatever it is) because we have stacked a bunch of future assets so can get unstuck one way or another later on. We also clearly timed the market amazingly with the return we got.
My concern is more timeline related... for lack of a better phrase. We have an AS and need to put another AS next to him. We have the assets to get an AS but a perfect one is not going to be cheap and opportunities are not abundant. Its better if one of our rookies "pops" and we have a dynamic duo with some other good pieces. The issue is that rookies generally take 2-3 years even when they are good. The timeline is currently Lauri related and I think he can be very good for a long time... I also think he will be around for a while if we want to keep him. So I think we have a long runway... but if we botched the 2023 draft we will be in real trouble. We need at least some really good starters out of the picks we made this year.
I was super excited to potentially get Jrue as it represented a nice blending of being good, clarifying the roster, and not limiting the future much. I support the current method of building talent and waiting for some opportunities... especially this season as we don't have our pick unless its top 10 or 8 or whatever. If we get to 2025 and are still kinda "what's the deal here?" I think you need to really pick a direction then. Trade Lauri and get a haul? Trade for an AS even if they have 1 year left on the deal? We probably should have tanked harder last year but with where we find ourselves I think its okay to churn in the middle a bit... see what we find.
As Locke pointed out today. Jazz tried to get Porzingis and Holiday. They aren't interested in a slow rebuild focused around ensuring rookies get minutes
fishonjazz
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If Dunn played like he did last season then he would definitely be a starter in the nba on a quite a few teams. He was fantastic.
18 points, 8 assists, 6 rebounds on 54% from the field and 47% from three while playing great defense (1.6 steals) and not turning the ball over (2.2) is pretty damn amazing.
6 foot 3. 205 lbs (good size). 29 years old (prime).
Can he continue to play like that? No idea but that is definitely nba starting pg level play.
Your first sentence is 100% correct though. We are literally the only team in the nba with Dunn or THT as an option to start at pg since we are literally the only team in the nba with Dunn and THT on our roster lol.
I feel like people get lost in the so called timelines of rebuilds when in reality it usually comes to down to hitting on a couple great players. So many teams go in and out of rebuilds constantly because they never hit on those really good players and don't have the patience to stay down and start to aggressively add guys to a young core that simply isn't good enough and they get stuck in no mans land for a few years. Then once they realize they are in no mans land they start it all over again. If you are patient and do it right then the window to do something special should be almost a decade. Particularly if you did a solid job of collecting future draft assets to offset roster turnover and vet regression. For our team pretty much every player is still a bit of a question mark which is why I didn't like the idea of a heavy win now move for a 33yr old like Holiday. I'm sure I will get some push back on calling Lauri a question mark but he has only done it one season. For me to have 100% confidence in him I need to see a repeat of that level of production and I think he probably will. There are plenty of other guys that I like a lot as well but we haven't seen enough from them to know for sure.
Unless you have a GOAT you do not have a decade long window.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
This is good news in my opinion, even though I don't personally love Porzingis. I was getting the feeling that we were waiting for a super star to become available before we used any of our assets. I would prefer we try and be as good as possible while maintaining flexibility. I'd also love to see some concern for fit within whatever type of team they are working to build is going to look like.
The only other thing I would point out is that we have to be a little bit careful on playing time for our young guys to the point that we don't significantly delay/limit their development. I do think it's possible to develop and win, but it's a tricky balance.
We are lucky to witness the blossoming of THT
framer
Well-Known Member
It has been my experience that the best way to develop rookies is to surround them with good players. That way, when they get their shot to play, they can come in and do something meaningful. I'm not a fine of throwing a bunch of inexperienced talent into a pot to "let them cook." The rooks will get a shot, and when they do it won't be glorified summer league play.
Doc Cherno
Well-Known Member
I'm there for the Dunn/Keyonte Kool-Aid.
There's a scenario where the Jazz are a .500 team and make the play-in/playoffs. However, the team seems to be in asset-acquisition and churning mode, given the recent trade rumors. I could see the Jazz trading out THT, Sexton, Olynyk and/or Clarkson during the season if they receive solid offers.
HermanG
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You lack faith, I get it. Whatever I say about cap flexibility, maximizing windows, playoff proofing or steps towards contention wont change that.
However the tea leaves are there to read, and the FO wont go into "The Process", no matter how much you want it. There were plenty of people advocating for us to trade Lauri (et al) last year. The FO had every right to do it but they opted not to. They chose to keep them as building blocks.
You can swim against the current or grab some popcorn. Your choice.