What is the main reason the Gobert/Conley/2nd Unit isn't doing as well this year?

[LogGrad98]

It’s not. I just always pledge my undying support for JC even though it has been tough lately. His struggles are causing some issues for sure and it’s fair to question how big his role should be on a championship team. I do see him trying to play better defense and play with the pass a little more here and there. It’s more of a tongue-in-cheek support.

I think they call that the fishhook.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Niang equation is severely underrated. Hopefully Gay solves that.

 

[whatthe]

Niang also fed the ball consistently to Rudy and he hid his defensive weakness with Rudy. There is no hiding Pascal on offense. My hope is really when Gay is back, he can fill that whole.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Clarkson's ball dominance and inefficiency have been a real drag on the team as a whole so far. Also, Paschall won't make shots like Niang did, but that's a lesser issue.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Clarkson has been off is the main reason but the difference isnt that big. Net rating last year was 15 and this year its 11.3. The TS% is pretty close, the difference is probably less FTs getting called this year. The defense this year has a 95 rating which is amazing if that holds up and frankly this is a solid net rating if it holds up for the year. This is the 6th best net rating 5 man lineup in the NBA that has played at least 70 minutes together. Oddly the best one is from Orlando that just beat us. It would be a top 10 lineup last year as well for a secondary lineup or starting lineup.

I think getting Gay back from injury will make a huge difference as well for all the lineups, it will push out our bad lineups and improve this one.

 

[Gameface]

Hey, maybe the new ball...

Someone should start a whole new thread about the fact that there is a new ball in the NBA this year.

Oh ****... I did that. But people want to talk about when they tried a new ball at the local YMCA in 1996 instead of the fact that the NBA is using a new ball this year.

Shooting percentage is down across the entire NBA to start this season.

Some people think maybe the new ball has something to do with it... but who ****ing knows. Maybe tell us about when you tried a different ball at your local YMCA because that matters.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Hey, maybe the new ball...

Someone should start a whole new thread about the fact that there is a new ball in the NBA this year.

Oh ****... I did that. But people want to talk about when they tried a new ball at the local YMCA in 1996 instead of the fact that the NBA is using a new ball this year.

Shooting percentage is down across the entire NBA to start this season.

Some people think maybe the new ball has something to do with it... but who ****ing knows. Maybe tell us about when you tried a different ball at your local YMCA because that matters.

I have some thoughts, will put them in your thread.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Clarkson has been off is the main reason but the difference isnt that big. Net rating last year was 15 and this year its 11.3. The TS% is pretty close, the difference is probably less FTs getting called this year. The defense this year has a 95 rating which is amazing if that holds up and frankly this is a solid net rating if it holds up for the year. This is the 6th best net rating 5 man lineup in the NBA that has played at least 70 minutes together. Oddly the best one is from Orlando that just beat us. It would be a top 10 lineup last year as well for a secondary lineup or starting lineup.

I think getting Gay back from injury will make a huge difference as well for all the lineups, it will push out our bad lineups and improve this one.

Huh, your numbers are different than Kqwin. Where are you getting your lineup data from?

 

[LogGrad98]

Hey, maybe the new ball...

Someone should start a whole new thread about the fact that there is a new ball in the NBA this year.

Oh ****... I did that. But people want to talk about when they tried a new ball at the local YMCA in 1996 instead of the fact that the NBA is using a new ball this year.

Shooting percentage is down across the entire NBA to start this season.

Some people think maybe the new ball has something to do with it... but who ****ing knows. Maybe tell us about when you tried a different ball at your local YMCA because that matters.

I had this awesome Wilson jet when I was a kid. It was fantastic. Best ball I've ever used. There, are you happy now?

 

[Ron Mexico]

Huh, your numbers are different than Kqwin. Where are you getting your lineup data from?

NBA.com

But mine is after the latest games as well.

 

[fishonjazz]

It’s sample size and JC. Can’t shoot that ****** and that much and not hurt a lineup.

Yep. Was going to go with sample size when i saw that option but then saw the clarkson option and went with that instead.

 

[fishonjazz]

The difference is in the offense. 120 offensive rating last year, just a 109 this year. It's easy to look at Clarkson and there's some truth to that, but he hasn't been as far off of last year as you would think. In this lineup last year, he had a 52% TS. This year it's 49% which is obviously worse, but not exactly something that would drop the lineup. The difference between Niang and Paschall comes at smaller volume of shots, but Niang was 60% TS compared to just 30% TS for Paschall. So yeah...big difference there. But at the same time, Joe is really propping up this unit with his shooting. He's at a ridiculous 91% TS which is really. Mike has also been shooting above his head in this unit so I don't think the shooting as a unit is where we can't point the blame. Clarkson and Paschall are shooting worse and will get better, Ingles and Conley will come back to earth.

Under further inspection, the real culprit is that this unit is turning over the ball like crazy. Last year the lineup turned the ball over 12.4 times per 100 possessions. This year it's 19 times per 100 possessions! That right there is making up most of the difference in offense. Gobert is the biggest difference here. Last year at 2.7 turnover per 100. This year 7.2 which is absolutely crazy. His offensive fouls have gone up from 0.16 to 3.27....which seems unbelievable.

On paper, the problem is turnovers and not poor shooting. I don't know how turnover variance compares to shooting variance, but I suspect that will normalize down the line. Maybe you can point to Paschall hurting the spacing causing turnovers, but it seems like a reach. Rudy has just been turning the ball over like crazy.

The other thing that has gone wrong is when Conley or Ingles have been out. Last year Oni stepped in and those lineups were even better. It's the main reason why I think he should still be on this team. This year, the combination of Oni/Butler/Forrest has not gone well. Last year we were +31 when Oni came in for one of those two. This year, we are -31.6 when one of those three have come in.

Good post

 

[Ron Mexico]

Not comparing the lineups but the team overall to last year. We have a better record against a harder schedule this year. Through 10 games last year we were 6-4. We are shooting the same overall percentage as last year but a worse 3 point percentage by about 8%. Rebounds and turnovers are about the same. Advanced stats say we are much better this year. Our offensive rating is 113 this year vs 110 last year. Our defense seems to be much better as well at 104 vs 109 last year. So we have a net rating of +9 vs 0.8 last year.

I think we are having a better start this year than we have ever under Snyder. The only thing we are missing is our 3 point shot, and our guys will get back to their averages especially the vets like Bogey and Clarkson. Teams will get hot and beat us, it happens to every team. We will have bad games. But it seems like we are in position to be the best regular season team again this year and I think we are built better and more prepared for the playoffs this year if we stay healthy.

 

[Agent#00]

- jazz starters start slow and can't create separation
- bench comes in, erases/build leads and momentum
- repeat