When will Snyder or Gobert become responsible for our offensive woes?

[carolinajazz]

Regarding Snyder, all of our guards that played for him end up sucking. And some were/are great on other teams (Rubio and Conley) literally all of our point guards have not played well in Snyder's system. This has to call for more than just a coincidence.

As for Gobert, it was easy to blame the spacing on having two big men that crowded up the lane. But Favors is gone and we've literally surrounded Gobert with "shooters". But we are still having problems.

First of all, Gobert will NEVER be the serious offensive threat you think he should be. He's just not a "shooter"! He's a dunker and a guy who can and will score when he gets the ball right around the basket, but he's never going to be a guy who knocks down 15 foot jumpers! And he doesn't have to, to be effective in Snyders offensive system!

Rubio, on the other hand, can and has played VERY WELL in Snyders system as was evident in the last 25 games of last season! Rubio is a pass first shoot second point guard and will always be that way! His shooting can and has improved, but he's never going to be an outside threat to the extent you think he should be.

 

[magic]

Your phrase was all our guards end up sucking... Hill was amazing and Ricky had the best scoring FG percentage years... his assists were down as you noted. That is not all our guards sucking. Conley has struggled to get going but it’s super early and some of those first few games were putrid. Month of November he’s getting slightly better...his shooting numbers are down but raw stats are close to career averages... so I think he needs another 10-15 games to fully acclimate... just think saying all of the guards end up sucking is factually incorrect. Hill and Rubio are the only real potential examples and I would say the opposite of sucking was what they did... Ricky’s raw numbers are up this year but on a per minute basis they are actually slightly lower.


Conleys start is concerning but he also has the biggest adjustment of any of those guys. Hopefully this isn’t his new normal... I’m still going to believe in his last 12 years over the last 2 months.

Yes, lets take it back to the sucking statement. Hill didn't suck, but Rubio did. If you want stats as evidence to sucking, then you would have to look at Rubio's 4th quarter stats, particularly in the playoffs. Should really be evaluated on playoffs only in this case, since it is easy to stat pad against weaker non-playoff teams.

There is also non-statistical evidence that he sucked by just watching the actual game, as defenders would essentially not guard Rubio and just make life difficult whoever was our go to player for offense on the floor at the time (either DM or Jingles).

But yes, my statement is still wrong because George Hill is the sole outlier to a point guard playing ok in Snyder's system.

 

[magic]

Also, nobody actually answered my question. It was a hypothetical if we continue to not play well offensively when would Snyder or Gobert take the blame. From the responses, I can deduce that Gobert will never get blamed for our offensive woes and Snyder has the potential to be blamed, but in regards to when people would turn on him, I still can't make an educated guess. Perhaps after another early playoff exit.

 

[infection]

But yes, my statement is still wrong because George Hill is the sole outlier to a point guard playing ok in Snyder's system.

So one really good year of Hill vs. two mediocre years of Rubio + 13 bad games of Conley? Is that what this boils down to?

 

[magic]

So one really good year of Hill vs. two mediocre years of Rubio + 13 bad games of Conley? Is that what this boils down to?

Trey Burke and Exum didn't play well either. Rubio was bad in the playoffs, so I count those years as bad.

 

[infection]

Trey Burke and Exum didn't play well either. Rubio was bad in the playoffs, so I count those years as bad.

And how has Trey Burke preformed outside here? Exum isn’t relevant.

 

[mellow]

Alec Burks is leading Warriors over Memphis. Alec is leading scorer on 7-10 shooting. The Grizz are led in scoring by Crowder 4-8 shooting. Probably Goberts fault.

 

[NAOS]

DL really ****ed up when he selected Grayson ****ing Allen over Anfernee Simons.

We’ve bled so many ****ing assets over the PG spot.

 

[NAOS]

Also, nobody actually answered my question. It was a hypothetical if we continue to not play well offensively when would Snyder or Gobert take the blame. From the responses, I can deduce that Gobert will never get blamed for our offensive woes and Snyder has the potential to be blamed, but in regards to when people would turn on him, I still can't make an educated guess. Perhaps after another early playoff exit.

I’ve been fairly vocal in my criticism of Snyder’s slow starts. This is, imo, largely due to an offensive system and a pedagogical style that’s a bit too cerebral.

But this problem has always been eclipsed by at least a couple more pressing issues. For example, a bench that actually produces would be nice to have.

Exum
Bradley
Niang
Kidd
....

 

[mellow]

Exum isn’t relevant.

Most true statement in the thread.

 

[Jingled]

I'm going to let the season and playoffs play out before I make any judgement. I will say though that if we end up with another mediocre or below average offense then much of the blame should fall on Quins system. This roster should be at least top 10 offensively.

 

[NAOS]

I'm going to let the season and playoffs play out before I make any judgement. I will say though that if we end up with another mediocre or below average offense then much of the blame should fall on Quins system. This roster should be at least top 10 offensively.

I’ve been getting impatient because we don’t appear to leveraging our advantages very well + the ball is sticking + our shot distribution has been a disaster. These are fixable things, so their continuation game to game is quickly disconcerting.

Also, splurging on Conley signals that we’ve gone all-in. If that’s true, then we can’t piss away games. HC advantage is especially important for a team that hasn’t advanced very far.

 

[infection]

I’ve been getting impatient because we don’t appear to leveraging our advantages very well + the ball is sticking + our shot distribution has been a disaster. These are fixable things, so their continuation game to game is quickly disconcerting.

Also, splurging on Conley signals that we’ve gone all-in. If that’s true, then we can’t piss away games. HC advantage is especially important for a team that hasn’t advanced very far.

The last paragraph is where it’s at. If you’ve pushed all the chips to the center, then that completely changes the calculus. Things that were minor issues or things you could be patient about and “not get irrational” are no longer acceptable, and you have to act like it.

 

[Jingled]

Snyder’s offense generated “good” shots because of Rubio (sagging defenses) and other “non-shooters”. Defenses are guarding our guys very tightly on the perimeter and dropping the big, and the only thing our offense is doing to adjust is getting to no mans land about 18 feet out and getting us bad shots or turnovers if we try to force it.

What's interesting is this is how we've guarded the last few years. Drop the big, guard the 3 point line and force teams into taking mid range shots. Now the rest of the league is giving us a dose of our own medicine and our offense really struggling as a result.

 

[magic]

And how has Trey Burke preformed outside here? Exum isn’t relevant.

Exum is one of the biggest examples of Snyder's failures imo. If he somehow becomes an adequate player it'll be in spite of Snyder, not because of Snyder. He should have been taking a lot of Trey Burke's minutes, but Snyder insisted playing Burke instead.

 

[nateboz]

The offense has been spectacular when Conley looks like he's supposed to look. Unfortunately he's played terrible more often than spectacular.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yes, lets take it back to the sucking statement. Hill didn't suck, but Rubio did. If you want stats as evidence to sucking, then you would have to look at Rubio's 4th quarter stats, particularly in the playoffs. Should really be evaluated on playoffs only in this case, since it is easy to stat pad against weaker non-playoff teams.

There is also non-statistical evidence that he sucked by just watching the actual game, as defenders would essentially not guard Rubio and just make life difficult whoever was our go to player for offense on the floor at the time (either DM or Jingles).

But yes, my statement is still wrong because George Hill is the sole outlier to a point guard playing ok in Snyder's system.

I watched the games... not sure what you are watching Hill was not just okay he was effing great. Just didn’t stay healthy. Rubio was fine... Conley has sucked his first few games... so your statement that they all sucked isn’t true... those are the only three... not like we talking about it 100 player sample.

 

[Deleted member 95]

I watched the games... not sure what you are watching Hill was not just okay he was effing great. Just didn’t stay healthy. Rubio was fine... Conley has sucked his first few games... so your statement that they all sucked isn’t true... those are the only three... not like we talking about it 100 player sample.

The George Hill and Horward team was so much fun to watch when clicking. I still remember the early Sunday Knicks game when we kicked Melo's ***.

 

[infection]

The George Hill and Horward team was so much fun to watch when clicking.

I was thinking this team would mirror that but with much better pieces. Hopefully that comes together.

Conley = Hill on steroids.
Mitchell = Much better than Hood.
Ingles = Much better than 2016 Ingles.
Bojan = Hayward but better and a #2 in that role and not a #2 in a #1 role.
Gobert = Better Gobert.

It could still happen. We need to move the damn ball, though. And start Ingles.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Exum is one of the biggest examples of Snyder's failures imo. If he somehow becomes an adequate player it'll be in spite of Snyder, not because of Snyder. He should have been taking a lot of Trey Burke's minutes, but Snyder insisted playing Burke instead.

Your memory is really bad... Dante was handed the job... he was terrible. Quin would have helped him develop if he was ever healthy... it would also help if he could shoot at all and had a decent handle but I suppose that’s Quins fault too.