Why didn't the Jazz keep Millsap around?
- Thread starter l Abach l
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Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
We wouldn't have had Exum. The whole idea was to rebuild and get the best pick possible. Keeping Millsap would have meant the Jazz were committed to "retooling" and fighting for the playoffs. Even with no other re-signings. Utah with Millsap is 5-10 wins better. So take that #5 pick and move it to around #10. I guess that means Payton or McBuckets instead of Exum? Also, both Paul and Derrick wanted to start. Derrick is NOT a starting 5. He has repeatedly said he's a 4. There had already been some friction over who started alongside Jefferson.
I think it is a very similar situation to what we have now with Enes. Three players see themselves as starters: Kanter, Favors and Gobert. Enes sees his starting spot in jeopardy. In fact, I think what brought on his trade demand can be traced back to a few games ago, when Gobert started the 2nd half with Favors - and shut down Aldridge. Snyder wants defense; he's shown that by promoting Dante to the starting unit over Trey.
AS good as Paul is right now, he's also getting up there in age. By the time the Jazz are ready to contend, he'll be starting to slide. And Favors is a MUCH better defender. Had we kept Millsap, one of the two would have been unhappy. Maybe Derrick would be lobbying for a trade right now.
Handlogten's Heros
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This is a really tired narrative for so many reasons.
We may need to consider that he dumped us... that he didn't necessarily want to be here and wanted a change of scenery.
We may need to consider that he dumped us... that he didn't necessarily want to be here and wanted a change of scenery.
l Abach l
Well-Known Member
Interesting analysis. I disagree however that the "retool" wouldn't have worked. If we start Gobert, we desperately need a 4 that can stretch defenses and create for himself. I would have been fine shipping off favors had we kept millsap for a guard, but what's done is done. Hoping favors can still develop a consistent jump shot
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I never said the retool wouldn't have worked, In fact, I think the Jazz would have made the playoffs last season. Hindsight is great, though. I doubt we see the same Millsap and DMC Atlanta has now. Snyder really helped DMC develop. And Millsap was given more freedom. WE'd be a 7th/8th seed with a starting lineup of Millsap/Favors/Hayward/Foye and some veteran PG. We know Jefferson and Mo weren't returning. DMC and Gobert would be coming off the bench. The big key is that Corbin would STILL be the coach. The Millers would NEVER do what the Warriors did with Jackson. They simply wouldn't fire a coach who guided the team to the playoffs.
And that was the crux of the argument that pitted Lindsey against KOC and many others in the front office. Did the Jazz want to remain in that perennial loop of just making the playoffs, but never contending - or did the Jazz want to rebuild and take a shot at getting a franchise player in the 2014 draft (likely the best chance they'd ever have)?
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
He has developed a consistent jump shot. He may not create his offense the way Millsap does but he can create his own shot, plus he gets most of his points within the context of the offense through pick'n roll and drive and dish situations. Something Millsap didn't do. Favors will be better then Millsap in a year or two in my opinion.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Agree. Favors is a better P&R PF than Millsap. And he's more versatile. Derrick CAN play the 5 behind Gobert if Utah gets a PF who they want to play 25-30 mins. I'm now hoping Utah can trade for or sign a shooter and draft WCS. Booker and Gobert play 30-35 mins each. WCS and Booker play 13-18 mins as their backups. We would have the best defensive duo in the league at the 5.
In the end it seems retooling with Corbin was the mistake. Oh yeah, and Big Fat Juicy Al.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
The first retool - and acquisition of Big Al - was done under Sloan's watch. And it was done to try to keep our franchise player happy and ensure he would re-sign with the Jazz. Ty gave us fool's gold by leading the Jazz to the playoffs in the strike-shortened season. Took a fresh set of eyes (Lindsey) to see the team for what it really was.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
I do miss Millsap but I wonder about Demarre Carol more. He obviously isn't at the same level as Sap, but we could have kept him around for cheap and the guy does all of those little things that help a team win.
Hopefully E.Sap can undergo a Demarre-like transformation next year and starting hitting shots.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
It's the Quin effect. DMC was a high intensity player but he had no range and was just an average defender. He took a lot of chances on defense. Snyder molded him into not only a starter, but a very good one. Would DMC have developed on defense and as a shooter under Ty? I doubt it.
DeMarr was in Atlanta for 2013 season. Quin became head coach for Jazz in June 2014.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
ummm .. quin was an assistant in Atlanta in 2013 ?? Helllllooo McFly ??
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
I don't think that we can thank Quinn for developing Carroll during their 1 shared year in Atlanta. Carroll was showing signs of who he was and who he was becoming while still with Utah. We didn't have him for range, we had him for defense. And when someone is taking chances on defense that means that they are growing in that area. You have to make mistakes to learn from them. Carroll was doing everything his last year in Utah that was important but doesn't show up on the stat sheet. He reminded me of a player from the 90's with his out of control defense. There is a stat for how many shots you block but there isn't one for how many shots you interrupt. He was becoming a very very good defender with us and was worth keeping around. If you do credit a coach to his development, credit Carroll as a man first. Then you would have to credit the entire Hawks organization, not just one assistant coach.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
^^
Yes, you do have to credit DMC for working hard to improve, But Carroll gives a lot of the credit to Quin, who worked with him one-on-one. Just go back to many of the articles when Quin was a candidate (or newly hired by Utah). DMC's comments are in those articles and he defintely says Snyder deserves a ton of credit.
Here, I found this:
Former Jazz man/current Hawk DeMarre Carroll gives high praise to Quin Snyder during exit interview
https://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-h...marre-carroll/
Yes, you do have to credit DMC for working hard to improve, But Carroll gives a lot of the credit to Quin, who worked with him one-on-one. Just go back to many of the articles when Quin was a candidate (or newly hired by Utah). DMC's comments are in those articles and he defintely says Snyder deserves a ton of credit.
Here, I found this:
Former Jazz man/current Hawk DeMarre Carroll gives high praise to Quin Snyder during exit interview
Source
https://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-h...marre-carroll/
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I recall reading this during the summer. Hopefully Quin is working with Sap in much the same way
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I just don't understand why the Jazz didn't see what we saw, he was turning into a nice 3 & D player
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Could be that DMC wanted a chance to start. And he wasn't going to get that with Hayward and Burks as the wings. But I disagree he was turning into a "3 & D" player with Utah. He was a 4-yr player who only shot 29% on his 3's in his first full season with Utah. The season before - between Denver and Utah - he had a better percentage but it was an insignificant sample size.
Carroll BECAME a very good 3&D player by working with Quin for a season. Paul Millsap also speaks very highly of Quin, although Paul had a much more developed game. We should probably be very happy DMC went to Atlanta and improved so much. It was a very nice accomplishment by Quin that added a real feather to his cap. I'm sure that didn't go unnoticed as Lindsey was evaluating head coaching candidates.
It's just a shame Atlanta is so good. I don't think there's a chance DMC would return even if he were offered $7-$8M. Plus, that would shift Hair Gordon back to SG and put Alec on the bench. Probably not where we want to go.
Jazz Insider
Banned
becuz the jazz are cheap, and why pay millsap when the fans will buy tix anyway, and buy into the perpetual rebuild.