Williams.

[NUMBERICA]

I haven't seen the games, we've been doing some stupid touring crap this past week. However, I've seen him go through spurts where he's exhibited things you're mentioning and it doesn't warm my heart or anything. However;

1) He generally doesn't have that attitude and has 'recovered' from similar bouts, so I'm not concerned with a longterm or (more) permanent behavioral shift.
2) Good comes with 'bad', his positive qualities and contributions vastly overpower whatever perceived negatives he may occasionally bring to the table.
2) For whatever reason, he seems to progressively get more calls year by year. I don't have numbers for that right now, but operating off of that premise, it seems more than a coincidence that it corresponds with his protest of calls.

There's a balance with petitioning calls in your favor, but it seems to me that it makes a difference for the better if you're a good player and you don't go overboard and get a lot of T's. Part of getting "star calls" has to be working refs, and in fact I think Millsap's production has suffered precisely because he just plays and doesn't protest.

If I had to emphasize a single one of those points, it would be #2. As a fan, I give him a ton more leeway than I would someone that hasn't done the necessary things to earn near-league-wide and/or fan-wide respect and is clearly the ox on which our hopes ride. I don't view Millsap as an untouchable piece, but I hold a similar (though lesser) view with him.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

You're like the guy who complains about the government's policies, but never votes. I think you complain about threads/posts on this board more often than you contribute to it.

Well that's total ********. Not much to contribute to lately. But you're right, I'm the bitch. Serry.

Deron is Deron. He's super competitive, which gives him his fire. Unfortunately the whining and pouting comes along with it. You've seen Kobe, the guy is a cry baby because he hates to lose. I'd rather Deron get pissed off and throw a fit than sit back and watch things self destruct.

He cares, that's a good thing.

 

[jimmyjazz]

A lot of times Deron has had to dump the ball to somebody else sooner than usual because Sloan makes him be the shooting guard in a lot of plays -- and that seems to be because the actual SG we've got is so mediocre. The Jazz need a quality SG so Deron can focus on being the great PG that he is.

 

[NAOS]

I'm mostly sympathetic with NUMBERICA's views on this, but in the spirit of the OP I'll add a little caveat.

I think we might have learned that if DWill is going to be the outright #1 on this team, then he needs more than just a #2 player to carry the team through the 82 game schedule; he needs a #1a. Part of the problem with this team is that no #2 has emerged, let alone #1a.

Besides a change in the starting lineup, I want the Jazz to work on establishing a solid two-man game with DWill and SOMEBODY ELSE. There is too much democracy happening out there between Al and Sap... somebody's got to step into a more dominant role. I've now seen enough of the Spurs this year to be convinced: you have to be able to play the two-man game during stretches, control the tempo, take over games. Why should a team famous for Stockton-to-Malone need to learn this lesson?

Sap is my man in this scenario. I run a high pick-and-roll with him... let him decide to pop or dive to the basket. Everybody else clear the F&$% out for a second, and make sure that CJ (added to the starting lineup) is camped on the three point line (Hayward, too?). Tell Al that if he doesn't get every rebound, then you're going to cut his balls off.

Otherwise, let the flex do its thing... we're just putting too much faith in it. It's frustrating when it doesn't go well -- resulting in these "pouting" spells by Deron when he can't take the game over for whatever reason.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

I'm mostly sympathetic with NUMBERICA's views on this, but in the spirit of the OP I'll add a little caveat.

I think we might have learned that if DWill is going to be the outright #1 on this team, then he needs more than just a #2 player to carry the team through the 82 game schedule; he needs a #1a. Part of the problem with this team is that no #2 has emerged, let alone #1a.

Besides a change in the starting lineup, I want the Jazz to work on establishing a solid two-man game with DWill and SOMEBODY ELSE. There is too much democracy happening out there between Al and Sap... somebody's got to step into a more dominant role. I've now seen enough of the Spurs this year to be convinced: you have to be able to play the two-man game during stretches, control the tempo, take over games. Why should a team famous for Stockton-to-Malone need to learn this lesson?

Sap is my man in this scenario. I run a high pick-and-roll with him... let him decide to pop or dive to the basket. Everybody else clear the F&$% out for a second, and make sure that CJ (added to the starting lineup) is camped on the three point line (Hayward, too?). Tell Al that if he doesn't get every rebound, then you're going to cut his balls off.

Otherwise, let the flex do its thing... we're just putting too much faith in it. It's frustrating when it doesn't go well -- resulting in these "pouting" spells by Deron when he can't take the game over for whatever reason.

Whole lotta win in this post. reppdddd

 

[LogGrad98]

When Deron scores a lot of points, he's selfish. When he's deferring or getting others involved, he's pouting. When _____ it's his fault because he _____.

I hope the Jazz win just so Jazz fans don't start splitting hairs about an elite player that isn't quite Stockton and/or Malone.

Stockton AND Malone. Whoa.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think the key stats are Deron's turnovers and double-digit (or very close, say 8 or more) assists. If he gets more than 8 assists and fewer than 4 TO then it is going to be a win, if not we will struggle. Not sure if that has much to do with his attitude or if he just gets out of the swing of things, but those 2 seem to correlate with rough games.

 

[gregbroncs]

It does seem like when Derons passive the team struggles. However, I don't blame this on Deron. The rest of that starting lineup are supposedly starters for a reason they need to be able to make plays when Deron either struggles or is having a hard time finding it. Why is it one players job to get the whole damn starting lineup going? Can't one of the others do that from time to time.

One way or another the starts this team gets off to needs to change. I have been calling for a starting lineup change for a month now and I think one may be in the near future if this continues.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I'm mostly sympathetic with NUMBERICA's views on this, but in the spirit of the OP I'll add a little caveat.

I think we might have learned that if DWill is going to be the outright #1 on this team, then he needs more than just a #2 player to carry the team through the 82 game schedule; he needs a #1a. Part of the problem with this team is that no #2 has emerged, let alone #1a.

Besides a change in the starting lineup, I want the Jazz to work on establishing a solid two-man game with DWill and SOMEBODY ELSE. There is too much democracy happening out there between Al and Sap... somebody's got to step into a more dominant role. I've now seen enough of the Spurs this year to be convinced: you have to be able to play the two-man game during stretches, control the tempo, take over games. Why should a team famous for Stockton-to-Malone need to learn this lesson?

Sap is my man in this scenario. I run a high pick-and-roll with him... let him decide to pop or dive to the basket. Everybody else clear the F&$% out for a second, and make sure that CJ (added to the starting lineup) is camped on the three point line (Hayward, too?). Tell Al that if he doesn't get every rebound, then you're going to cut his balls off.

Otherwise, let the flex do its thing... we're just putting too much faith in it. It's frustrating when it doesn't go well -- resulting in these "pouting" spells by Deron when he can't take the game over for whatever reason.

I've wanted to post something very similar to this but have not been sure just where it would be long and I can be lazy. Very aptly put, hard rep.

 

[Headtrip]

I'm mostly sympathetic with NUMBERICA's views on this, but in the spirit of the OP I'll add a little caveat.

I think we might have learned that if DWill is going to be the outright #1 on this team, then he needs more than just a #2 player to carry the team through the 82 game schedule; he needs a #1a. Part of the problem with this team is that no #2 has emerged, let alone #1a.

Besides a change in the starting lineup, I want the Jazz to work on establishing a solid two-man game with DWill and SOMEBODY ELSE. There is too much democracy happening out there between Al and Sap... somebody's got to step into a more dominant role. I've now seen enough of the Spurs this year to be convinced: you have to be able to play the two-man game during stretches, control the tempo, take over games. Why should a team famous for Stockton-to-Malone need to learn this lesson?

Sap is my man in this scenario. I run a high pick-and-roll with him... let him decide to pop or dive to the basket. Everybody else clear the F&$% out for a second, and make sure that CJ (added to the starting lineup) is camped on the three point line (Hayward, too?). Tell Al that if he doesn't get every rebound, then you're going to cut his balls off.

Otherwise, let the flex do its thing... we're just putting too much faith in it. It's frustrating when it doesn't go well -- resulting in these "pouting" spells by Deron when he can't take the game over for whatever reason.

Rep added. It's refreshing to read a well thought-out post, and I agree with you. Mansap can do what Boozer used to do on the offensive end. He isn't as good of a rebounder but he has developed a sweet shot. The pick and roll/pick and pop should give him a chance to shine.

 

[D Will> CP3]

[QUOTE= Tell Al that if he doesn't get every rebound, then you're going to cut his balls off.

Rep given

 

[Jazz4ever]

I'm mostly sympathetic with NUMBERICA's views on this, but in the spirit of the OP I'll add a little caveat.

I think we might have learned that if DWill is going to be the outright #1 on this team, then he needs more than just a #2 player to carry the team through the 82 game schedule; he needs a #1a. Part of the problem with this team is that no #2 has emerged, let alone #1a.

Besides a change in the starting lineup, I want the Jazz to work on establishing a solid two-man game with DWill and SOMEBODY ELSE. There is too much democracy happening out there between Al and Sap... somebody's got to step into a more dominant role. I've now seen enough of the Spurs this year to be convinced: you have to be able to play the two-man game during stretches, control the tempo, take over games. Why should a team famous for Stockton-to-Malone need to learn this lesson?

Sap is my man in this scenario. I run a high pick-and-roll with him... let him decide to pop or dive to the basket. Everybody else clear the F&$% out for a second, and make sure that CJ (added to the starting lineup) is camped on the three point line (Hayward, too?). Tell Al that if he doesn't get every rebound, then you're going to cut his balls off.

Otherwise, let the flex do its thing... we're just putting too much faith in it. It's frustrating when it doesn't go well -- resulting in these "pouting" spells by Deron when he can't take the game over for whatever reason.

The problem with this though is AJ has nowhere to clear out to. He can't back off to the three point line like Memo and draw his defender out. That extra defender will always be ready to step up and swat Sap on any drive.
And the angle isn't always there to pass it, so Sap will run the risk of turning it over. I really hope the Jazz at least try Memo in the starting lineup once he gets healthy. This losing the 1st quarter by 6 points every night has to stop.