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Yet another Hayward thread (but a new consideration, I think)

S

Strutter

Well-Known Member
My apologies for starting another Hayward thread, but I really wanted to discuss this take and I didn't feel like it fit the Boston vs Utah thread.

So I didn't catch the original interview but this video mentions a video interview where Hayward said that he hadn't decided if he'll even opt out yet. Now, I know what you're thinking (because I thought the same thing): "Well, he's just saying that to the news, how the hell could he pass on a raise from 16 mil to 30+ mil?" While he would certainly have plenty of incentive to opt out, there are a a few reasons to wait. First, after next season Hayward would be eligible for a newly-introduced massive $75 mil bonus if he makes an all-NBA team. That's nothing to sneeze at, and he's not too far from making one of the all-NBA teams. Second, it allows him to extend his lucrative pay raise into his later years as a player, when he has a greater chance of dropping off in talent.

And then there's the third reason, which benefits both Hayward and the Jazz (and us fans, of course). With three moves, the Jazz could open up max cap space to sign a top-tier free agent.
  1. Hayward opts in to the final year of his 16 mil contract
  2. The Jazz opt out of Diaw's 7.5 mil contract
  3. The Jazz trade away Burks' 10.5 mil contract for the cap space (like for a 2nd rounder or whatever)

With Hayward opting in and those two additional moves, the Jazz will be around 35 million under a 102 mil cap. (I'm getting my salary numbers from this site, btw.) I don't think trading Burks will be easy, but I don't think it's unrealistic either. His contract is reasonable under the new CBA, and he could certainly provide scoring on a new team. Anyway, with that much cap space, the Jazz would have the money to go after Lowry, Millsap, or even Chris Paul. And then--as far as I understand--the Jazz would still have the Bird Rights for Hayward, which would allow them to sign Gordon to the max while ignoring the soft salary cap.

So what do you guys think? And I'd be happy to have some of the more salary cap-savvy posters critique my numbers here. I did a bunch of research, but I could still be wrong on something.
 
Hmm.. yeah only 'if' he makes the All NBA team next year. But that isn't for sure yet. There are all sorts of things that figure into that. How the Jazz plays next year? Does Hayward have an injury?


Comes down to how close was he in making the All NBA team?


Opting out is the safest option to GET PAID NOW NO MATTER WHAT. Seeing as how prudent he is with his financials I think he would rather get paid now than risk an injury next year.
 
Strutter said:
My apologies for starting another Hayward thread, but I really wanted to discuss this take and I didn't feel like it fit the Boston vs Utah thread.

So I didn't catch the original interview but this video mentions a video interview where Hayward said that he hadn't decided if he'll even opt out yet. Now, I know what you're thinking (because I thought the same thing): "Well, he's just saying that to the news, how the hell could he pass on a raise from 16 mil to 30+ mil?" While he would certainly have plenty of incentive to opt out, there are a a few reasons to wait. First, after next season Hayward would be eligible for a newly-introduced massive $75 mil bonus if he makes an all-NBA team. That's nothing to sneeze at, and he's not too far from making one of the all-NBA teams. Second, it allows him to extend his lucrative pay raise into his later years as a player, when he has a greater chance of dropping off in talent.

And then there's the third reason, which benefits both Hayward and the Jazz (and us fans, of course). With three moves, the Jazz could open up max cap space to sign a top-tier free agent.
  1. Hayward opts in to the final year of his 16 mil contract
  2. The Jazz opt out of Diaw's 7.5 mil contract
  3. The Jazz trade away Burks' 10.5 mil contract for the cap space (like for a 2nd rounder or whatever)

With Hayward opting in and those two additional moves, the Jazz will be around 35 million under a 102 mil cap. (I'm getting my salary numbers from this site, btw.) I don't think trading Burks will be easy, but I don't think it's unrealistic either. His contract is reasonable under the new CBA, and he could certainly provide scoring on a new team. Anyway, with that much cap space, the Jazz would have the money to go after Lowry, Millsap, or even Chris Paul. And then--as far as I understand--the Jazz would still have the Bird Rights for Hayward, which would allow them to sign Gordon to the max while ignoring the soft salary cap.

So what do you guys think? And I'd be happy to have some of the more salary cap-savvy posters critique my numbers here. I did a bunch of research, but I could still be wrong on something.
Click to expand...


I think Hayward could sign a 2-year max deal (with the 2nd year being a player option) and still retain eligibility for the designated player exception (super-max deal). I see your point that Hayward could agree to defer his own deal to enable the Jazz to acquire more talent. I'm not sure if he's willing to leave money on the table to do that.
 
Catchall said:
I think Hayward could sign a 2-year max deal (with the 2nd year being a player option) and still retain eligibility for the designated player exception (super-max deal). I see your point that Hayward could agree to defer his own deal to enable the Jazz to acquire more talent. I'm not sure if he's willing to leave money on the table to do that.
Click to expand...

this is correct... there is no damned way Hayward gives up 14M to help the Jazz build the team... no way we should ask it of him.
 
I definitely agree with all of you. Especially that the risk of injury will loom over the decision. But as I stated before, it's not entirely purely altruistic for him to leave that 14 mil on the table this year. There is plenty of speculation that Hayward wants to leave for a better shot at a title (Boston, mostly), and this would be another way for him to have a great shot at a title and an impressive legacy. And while it's a risk waiting for a year, a possible 75 mil dollar bonus is quite the incentive.

Catchall, thanks for the info on the 2-year max deal. Wouldn't that be considered a risk (due to possible injury) just like opting in would be a risk as well?
 
I don't think there is any reason why he couldn't push for a player option after a few years and renegotiate if he makes the All NBA team is there? When you have players like Millsap opting out of a 21M contract that tells me the players have plenty of power and the league is not in a great place. Not to single Millsap out, he is a fine player and all, but he's going on 33 and hes undersized. How can this be sustainable for the league? You can't have everyone be max players...
 
Mongoose, he could sign for a shorter contract and a player option like Millsap did, but he can't just opt out at any time.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Hmm.. yeah only 'if' he makes the All NBA team next year. But that isn't for sure yet. There are all sorts of things that figure into that. How the Jazz plays next year? Does Hayward have an injury?


Comes down to how close was he in making the All NBA team?


Opting out is the safest option to GET PAID NOW NO MATTER WHAT. Seeing as how prudent he is with his financials I think he would rather get paid now than risk an injury next year.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does seem like Hayward is fairly prudent when it comes to money. That definitely makes this scenario less likely. He was pretty close to making one of the three all-NBA teams, actually. He was one of the honorable mentions that received votes. Many news outlets considered his absence from the third team a snub.
 
Because of our cap holds our current salaries are about 113 million entering free agency. Around 12 million over the cap. If Hayward opted in to his 16 million we could open some space by moving Burks and getting no contracts back, opting out of Diaw's non-guaranteed deal and renouncing the cap holds of Mack and Withey. That would put us roughly 11.5 million under the cap. But to get more would mean renouncing the cap hold of Hill or our restricted free agency rights to Ingles. Or doing another salary dump trade with a player like Favors. It's probably not very likely. Improving the roster through trades and the draft is our best bet. I think Hayward opts out and either signs a 1 year max deal with a second year player option to gamble on making the All NBA team for that pay raise or he just signs the 5 year max.
 
Strutter said:
My apologies for starting another Hayward thread, but I really wanted to discuss this take and I didn't feel like it fit the Boston vs Utah thread.

So I didn't catch the original interview but this video mentions a video interview where Hayward said that he hadn't decided if he'll even opt out yet. Now, I know what you're thinking (because I thought the same thing): "Well, he's just saying that to the news, how the hell could he pass on a raise from 16 mil to 30+ mil?" While he would certainly have plenty of incentive to opt out, there are a a few reasons to wait. First, after next season Hayward would be eligible for a newly-introduced massive $75 mil bonus if he makes an all-NBA team. That's nothing to sneeze at, and he's not too far from making one of the all-NBA teams. Second, it allows him to extend his lucrative pay raise into his later years as a player, when he has a greater chance of dropping off in talent.

And then there's the third reason, which benefits both Hayward and the Jazz (and us fans, of course). With three moves, the Jazz could open up max cap space to sign a top-tier free agent.
  1. Hayward opts in to the final year of his 16 mil contract
  2. The Jazz opt out of Diaw's 7.5 mil contract
  3. The Jazz trade away Burks' 10.5 mil contract for the cap space (like for a 2nd rounder or whatever)

With Hayward opting in and those two additional moves, the Jazz will be around 35 million under a 102 mil cap. (I'm getting my salary numbers from this site, btw.) I don't think trading Burks will be easy, but I don't think it's unrealistic either. His contract is reasonable under the new CBA, and he could certainly provide scoring on a new team. Anyway, with that much cap space, the Jazz would have the money to go after Lowry, Millsap, or even Chris Paul. And then--as far as I understand--the Jazz would still have the Bird Rights for Hayward, which would allow them to sign Gordon to the max while ignoring the soft salary cap.

So what do you guys think? And I'd be happy to have some of the more salary cap-savvy posters critique my numbers here. I did a bunch of research, but I could still be wrong on something.
Click to expand...


I can't see him opting in... The only way I believe it is possible is if he is looking at a Curry type situation in GS where the 'superstar' is being underpaid allowing the team to bring in additional top tier free agents. Again I think this is unlikely especially with the Jazz being put into a fund with no reason not to spend the money.

But hey, he has stated frequently his desire to win and there would be no greater sign of that than sacrificing 1/2 of his salary to allow the FO to bring in another Allstar calibre player.
 
I posted something similar right after the season ended. This would be amazing. We could also trade for a player like PG13 still as well. We would be in luxury cap land later but we could really win a championship.

If Jazz could get one of the top FAs to sign with us we could have a really special team. I do not think any of them will be interested though. If we could land Blake Griffin or one of the other top guys we could have this starting lineup after trading for PG13:

Dante Exum
Paul George
Gordon Hayward
Blake Griffin
Rudy Gobert

That team could win a championship next year. We would have to trade for PG13 first and have Hayward opted in. Then I think we would have an outside chance of luring a FA like Griffin or CP3 or maybe a step down and get a Lowry or Gallinari type player.

But again based on what I am seeing Hayward will end up opting out since he can still get the max deal if he opts and and signs a 1 and 1 deal with Utah. I also dont see us luring Griffin, CP3, Curry or Durant and the rest are a step down. I also dont think the FO is willing to take a big risk to get Paul George and I think the asking price for Butler is more than what we can or should offer.
 
SCS said:
Because of our cap holds our current salaries are about 113 million entering free agency. Around 12 million over the cap. If Hayward opted in to his 16 million we could open some space by moving Burks and getting no contracts back, opting out of Diaw's non-guaranteed deal and renouncing the cap holds of Mack and Withey. That would put us roughly 11.5 million under the cap. But to get more would mean renouncing the cap hold of Hill or our restricted free agency rights to Ingles.
Click to expand...

Yeah this would be included in this specific plan.

I think it's worth it IF you know that Hayward is going to opt in and is down with the plan to open up max cap space.
 
elan_prodigy said:
I can't see him opting in... The only way I believe it is possible is if he is looking at a Curry type situation in GS where the 'superstar' is being underpaid allowing the team to bring in additional top tier free agents. Again I think this is unlikely especially with the Jazz being put into a fund with no reason not to spend the money.

But hey, he has stated frequently his desire to win and there would be no greater sign of that than sacrificing 1/2 of his salary to allow the FO to bring in another Allstar calibre player.
Click to expand...

Did you read my entire post? He'd only be underpaid for one year in this scenario. He'd be doing it to wait and sign a potential "super max" deal next off-season.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I posted something similar right after the season ended. This would be amazing. We could also trade for a player like PG13 still as well. We would be in luxury cap land later but we could really win a championship.

If Jazz could get one of the top FAs to sign with us we could have a really special team. I do not think any of them will be interested though. If we could land Blake Griffin or one of the other top guys we could have this starting lineup after trading for PG13:

Dante Exum
Paul George
Gordon Hayward
Blake Griffin
Rudy Gobert

That team could win a championship next year. We would have to trade for PG13 first and have Hayward opted in. Then I think we would have an outside chance of luring a FA like Griffin or CP3 or maybe a step down and get a Lowry or Gallinari type player.

But again based on what I am seeing Hayward will end up opting out since he can still get the max deal if he opts and and signs a 1 and 1 deal with Utah. I also dont see us luring Griffin, CP3, Curry or Durant and the rest are a step down. I also dont think the FO is willing to take a big risk to get Paul George and I think the asking price for Butler is more than what we can or should offer.
Click to expand...


This would be amazing. Unlikely but AMAZING!
 
Ron Mexico said:
I posted something similar right after the season ended. This would be amazing. We could also trade for a player like PG13 still as well. We would be in luxury cap land later but we could really win a championship.

If Jazz could get one of the top FAs to sign with us we could have a really special team. I do not think any of them will be interested though. If we could land Blake Griffin or one of the other top guys we could have this starting lineup after trading for PG13:

Dante Exum
Paul George
Gordon Hayward
Blake Griffin
Rudy Gobert

That team could win a championship next year. We would have to trade for PG13 first and have Hayward opted in. Then I think we would have an outside chance of luring a FA like Griffin or CP3 or maybe a step down and get a Lowry or Gallinari type player.

But again based on what I am seeing Hayward will end up opting out since he can still get the max deal if he opts and and signs a 1 and 1 deal with Utah. I also dont see us luring Griffin, CP3, Curry or Durant and the rest are a step down. I also dont think the FO is willing to take a big risk to get Paul George and I think the asking price for Butler is more than what we can or should offer.
Click to expand...

I feel like Blake is really underappreciated league-wide. Dude is an elite point forward/passer, can rebound decently still, has stretched his range to three, and can still score 30 any given night. That said, he just seems like a guy who isn't very well liked. I have to wonder though if that's more of a Chris Paul-thing than anything else.
 
It's technically a great idea. I recall David Locke saying that Hayward had his feelings hurt last time in free agency, when he was a restricted free agent. The Jazz and him couldn't reach a deal, and the Jazz told him to go find someone that would pay him the amount that he asked for. Charlotte made him the offer- the Jazz matched, but his feelings were still hurt. If the Jazz asked him to take a pay cut NOW, it would probably just guarantee that he leaves.
 
Joncolton said:
It's technically a great idea. I recall David Locke saying that Hayward had his feelings hurt last time in free agency, when he was a restricted free agent. The Jazz and him couldn't reach a deal, and the Jazz told him to go find someone that would pay him the amount that he asked for. Charlotte made him the offer- the Jazz matched, but his feelings were still hurt. If the Jazz asked him to take a pay cut NOW, it would probably just guarantee that he leaves.
Click to expand...

Yeah it definitely doesn't work if Hayward isn't on board. I think the impetus would have to come from Gordon and his agent themselves. If it's the Jazz FO begging him to wait a year it would never work. But if he wants a reasonable chance at the super max bonus next year, and its HIS idea, then maybe.
 
There is a very slim chance that Hayward opts in to his current deal but there is no chance that the Jazz ask him to. If he does so which is more than highly unlikely, it will be because he and his agent decided it made sense. The Jazz will come at him with the max money the first minute they can do so.
 
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