yet another stupid death in children gun related accident...yes, in USA of course.

[Gameface]

You are imagining the conflict very incorrectly, imo.

If the U.S. government were to become "tyrannical" (by whatever definition we want to use to define tyrannical) they would be oppressing some on behalf of, or to the benefit of others. So it wouldn't be the U.S. government against all citizens, using their full military might to keep us all oppressed.

I've said it before, but my experience in the U.S. Navy is that the military would not simply oppress the masses. In fact, it is illegal for the U.S. military to perform any domestic police actions. Also, all members of the U.S. military swear an oath to defend the U.S. constitution, not the president, not the government.

So, anyway. Imagine civilians, some opposed to this new tyrannical government, some indifferent and some who support it. The antis don't all live in the same town. The government can't just bomb out residential neighborhoods for good measure.

The right to bear arms does not mean local bands of militia fighters meet the U.S. military on the battlefield and stand their ground. It does, however, mean that to oppress certain groups to the point that they have nothing to lose means that when government agents try to enforce whatever oppressive measures against them will have an extremely arduous and risky task.

It raises the price of tyranny, hopefully to a level high enough that it isn't worth it.

It also draws a definitive line. If the government will use military force (which I don't think is really possible since U.S. soldiers wouldn't carry out such orders) against civilians it will make it harder for the public at large to be indifferent or to support the government.

So, anyway, lyfao all you want. You are not considering realistic scenarios when you soo gleefully chop down your straw man.

Just wanted to point something out on second reading...this ^ is not a pro-gun argument, like at all.

 

[Gameface]

What about "intentional" shootings that occur with firearms that are owned, purchased and/or possessed illegally? That to me is a larger problem than "accidental" shootings.

Don't quite know what the answer is, not do I have any idea if that is part of the discussion that QSH is concerned with, but that's a large part of the problem as I see it.


And to respond to Colton's comments about arming ourselves as protection from a tyrannical government, in many of the most tyrannical societies, it is the armed citizenry that provides the tyranny, not the government.

I personally would like to see suicides separated out from the statistics. As well as a distinction between justified shootings, criminal on criminal shootings, criminal on innocent, and innocent on innocent.

Also, it is currently hard to make an argument for crimes prevented by the presence of a firearm possessed by a potential victim, because no such data is collected.

 

[babe]

l-m-f-a-o.

My family is from Kosovo. Nearly every single one of my relatives would laugh in your face if you told them "well the Kosovo War wouldn't have happened if you guys had an institutionalized right to bear arms!!!".





They call for the disarming-- but are they always successful? No. How do you think that citizen-armies like the KLA could have gotten their weapons after "Serbia disarmed them"? Not to mention the fact that an armed ground-infantry simply has no ****ing chance against a regime set on ethnic-cleansing. There is simply no way you would know, and who can blame you-- you grew up in the U.S. You simply do not understand. If NATO didn't intervene and sanction Serbia, we would have been flattened.

Not to mention things like this: https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/25/...o-disarm-paramilitary-police.html?ref=croatia

You are truly painting broadly with a single brush, while ignoring the particular contexts, and intricacies of each conflict that you named. Comparing the lack of genocides in a nation that is nationalistic based on cultural grounds as opposed to ethnic grounds is laughable, and your cookie-cutter treatment of a vast array of unique conflicts is doubly-laughable.

Quit twisting occurrences to suit your agenda. It weakens your reputation as a reasonable poster here.

I find Colton the most reasonable participant in this discussion. You need to consider the American experience in terms of the times and people involved just as you ask Colton to understand Kosovo.

I don't think our media tells us the truth about anything, so we need you to tell us what happened in Kosovo. For our history, people need to read the history from the libraries while the history can still be found there.

 

[8]

The US government is tyrannical and the right to bear arms wasn't enough to help the South after their right to secede was denied. Seems tyrannical, at least.

Y'all ever work a gun into the bedroom? Take advantage of the shape? Perhaps some roleplay ish? It's pretty boss.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I'm way more afraid of our democracy dying a slow death via the influence of big money than the government becoming tyrannical or some dictator taking charge via military coup.

The deregulation of the finance sector, tax cuts for the wealthy, selling of public lands, and the all out bribery associated with lobbyists poses a far greater threat to our nation than Fascism or Communism ever did.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Anyone who questions what I just said needs to merely take a glance at our neighbors to the north. They have far greater regulation on lobbying and on their finance sector. When 08 hit, they heard about it. But never felt the effects. Meanwhile, millions of Americans lost their 401ks.

Recently, Republicans pushed through deregulation that would allow banks to once again play Russian roulette with our savings. When they lose, our savings will be lost, and the government will once again have to bail them out.

Yay for lobbyists!

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Will respond to GF and colton tomorrow night. Absolutely exhausted. Was bombed last night. Beers, Irish car bombs, shots. So tired.

 

[Gameface]

Will respond to GF and colton tomorrow night. Absolutely exhausted. Was bombed last night. Beers, Irish car bombs, shots. So tired.

I know you're good for it. No rush.

 

[colton]

l-m-f-a-o.

My family is from Kosovo. Nearly every single one of my relatives would laugh in your face if you told them "well the Kosovo War wouldn't have happened if you guys had an institutionalized right to bear arms!!!".

Good thing I didn't say that, then. Please don't erect straw men, as it's very discourteous.

I said that a desire to protect citizens from a tyrannical government was a factor in why the Second Amendment was implemented. And that it quite possibly has helped the U.S. remain free from tyranny, and quite possibly would have helped other countries as well. I didn't make anything close to as blanket a statement as "the right to bear arms would prevent all genocides".

I don't know enough about Kosovo in specific to comment on that conflict. But if familial anecdotal evidence is all it takes to win an argument, I have many family members who would laugh in YOUR face if you told them that the Second Amendment had nothing to do with freedom.

You are truly painting broadly with a single brush, while ignoring the particular contexts, and intricacies of each conflict that you named. Comparing the lack of genocides in a nation that is nationalistic based on cultural grounds as opposed to ethnic grounds is laughable, and your cookie-cutter treatment of a vast array of unique conflicts is doubly-laughable.

Quit twisting occurrences to suit your agenda. It weakens your reputation as a reasonable poster here.

"Hey look! The kettle is black!!" (said the pot)

 

[Deleted member 848]

yet another stupid death in children gun related accident...yes, in USA of co...

Good thing I didn't say that, then. Please don't erect straw men, as it's very discourteous.

*giggle*

I said that a desire to protect citizens from a tyrannical government was a factor in why the Second Amendment was implemented.

Of course. Who disagrees on this point?

And that it quite possibly has helped the U.S. remain free from tyranny,

While I find this unlikely, it isn't impossible. Let's keep reading.

and quite possibly would have helped other countries as well.

Okayyyyyy this is where things get problematic

I didn't make anything close to as blanket a statement as "the right to bear arms would prevent all genocides".

Pal. You STRONGLY inferred it. Quit kidding yourself, and show some intellectual honesty. I'm glad you're back-pedalling, because it really is an incredibly moronic stance to hold. Let's re-visit that post:

Paranoid? Just thinking about my lifetime, I've seen atrocities committed by 10-20 different governments against their citizens (China, Cambodia, Serbia, Bosnia, Sudan, Somalia, Rwanda, Iraq, Uganda, Yugoslavia, ...) that could very possibly have been prevented if the citizens had had the right to bear arms.

Just as ridiculous as I remembered it being upon first reading it.

I don't know enough about Kosovo in specific to comment on that conflict.

Yet you did, inferring that a lack of legislation promoting gun rights led to Balkan ethnic cleansing

But if familial anecdotal evidence is all it takes to win an argument, I have many family members who would laugh in YOUR face if you told them that the Second Amendment had nothing to do with freedom.

Where did I say that the intent of the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with freedom?
Good thing I didn't say that, then. Please don't erect straw men, as it's very discourteous

"Hey look! The kettle is black!!" (said the pot)

To quote the wise sage Bart Simpson: "the ironing is delicious".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dumb Bloke]

Dalamon we realize your family is Kosovoish and you hate guns because what happens there and in violent Islame country. If I were from there I would probably be against gun armies too. Those people arent civilized democratic peoples and need to be ruled by an iron fist.

Its different in the west and you need to realize culture is a big factor in the pro-gun crowd's character. You cannot move into this world and drag your values into ours as if all things are equal. They're not.

Also, stop being a dick to Colton. It's not helping you get your point across.

 

[Dumb Bloke]

I find Colton the most reasonable participant in this discussion. You need to consider the American experience in terms of the times and people involved just as you ask Colton to understand Kosovo.

I don't think our media tells us the truth about anything, so we need you to tell us what happened in Kosovo. For our history, people need to read the history from the libraries while the history can still be found there.

Media is full of businesses selling a product. I dont know why you expect scientific journal type reporting to a mass of fools. It's just business.