This season will vindicate Ty Corbin

[mrob]

Yeah, his situation wasn't great. He didn't help anything either. He played vets way too much. Quin actually plays rookies and gives them multiple chances, even when things don't go well. Under Ty how many minutes would Exum have got...and if there were some scrub like JL3 does anyone want to wager how many minutes he would have got over Exum?

This is all belied by the larger point...that this thread is called "This Season will Vindicate Ty Corbin." Well, has it?

Corbin was not on board with what needed to happen here. We had veterans here that should have been helping and coming off the bench (in most cases). Instead of making the development of our young guys the priority, he took every opportunity to lean on the veterans to try to squeak out a few wins.

I don't think he was on the same page of Dennis Lindsay either. It kind of reminds me of the movie Moneyball where the coach didn't agree with what the GM was trying to do, so the GM just traded away all of the players.

 

[gregbroncs]

By fair shake I mean a legit chance to win. The Jazz signed and traded for, players like Rush, Biedrins and JLIII. That team has no chance of winning.

Glad we have Snyder and I think he is the right man for the job. But Corbin's failures are as much on the FO shoulders as his own.

In short: this season will not vindicate Corbin in any way. It also will do barely anything to vindicate his haters. He's gone and good luck to him.

We didn't expect him to win that season. And none of those players really should have played all that much (including Jefferson). The fact that they did is maybe the biggest indictment against Corbin. That season was about development and getting the young guys to play together and learn to play defense. That they didn't because of the coach is my biggest complaint.

 

[gregbroncs]

By fair shake I mean a legit chance to win. The Jazz signed and traded for, players like Rush, Biedrins and JLIII. That team has no chance of winning.

Glad we have Snyder and I think he is the right man for the job. But Corbin's failures are as much on the FO shoulders as his own.

In short: this season will not vindicate Corbin in any way. It also will do barely anything to vindicate his haters. He's gone and good luck to him.

Fair enough. But this organization was not asking him to win. He didn't do what the franchise wanted, so to me he had a fair shake and failed.

 

[Nate505]

We didn't expect him to win that season. And none of those players really should have played all that much (including Jefferson). The fact that they did is maybe the biggest indictment against Corbin. That season was about development and getting the young guys to play together and learn to play defense. That they didn't because of the coach is my biggest complaint.

Last year Rudy got a whopping 10 minutes a game under Ty, and had plenty of DNPs. Evans got 18.3. I actually like Evans more than many people here do, but that's coaching malpractice there.

Compared to say Dante this season. He's getting 21 minutes a game this season, and probably doesn't deserve that many. But he's getting them, because developing him is critical to the future success of this team.

 

[Stoked]

I went back and looked at the mpg for Favors, Gobert, Kanter, Hayward, Burks and Burke from last season to this one.

2013-14: Hayward 36.4 mpg, Favors 30.2 mpg, Burke 32.3 mpg, Burks 28.1 mpg, Gobert 9.6 mpg and Kanter 26.7 mpg

2014-15: hayward 34.8 mpg, Favors 31.4 mpg, Burke 30.4 mpg, Burks 33.3 mpg, Gobert 24.4 mpg and Kanter 26.7 mpg.

Corbin played Burke, Hayward and Favors more than Snyder does. Snyder plays(ed) Kanter, Gobert and Burks more. The only two big jumps are Burks pre injury was getting about 5mpg more this year and Gobert jumped up about 14 mpg and increasing.

No one saw Gobert exploding the way he did. So the Corbin "didn't play the youth" argument started falling apart last year.

 

[Nate505]

I went back and looked at the mpg for Favors, Gobert, Kanter, Hayward, Burks and Burke from last season to this one.

2013-14: Hayward 36.4 mpg, Favors 30.2 mpg, Burke 32.3 mpg, Burks 28.1 mpg, Gobert 9.6 mpg and Kanter 26.7 mpg

2014-15: hayward 34.8 mpg, Favors 31.4 mpg, Burke 30.4 mpg, Burks 33.3 mpg, Gobert 24.4 mpg and Kanter 26.7 mpg.

Corbin played Burke, Hayward and Favors more than Snyder does. Snyder plays(ed) Kanter, Gobert and Burks more. The only two big jumps are Burks pre injury was getting about 5mpg more this year and Gobert jumped up about 14 mpg and increasing.

No one saw Gobert exploding the way he did. So the Corbin "didn't play the youth" argument started falling apart last year.

Gobert proves the argument. Nobody saw him exploding because he didn't play. Once he started playing for the National Team, people saw that he had the potential to explode.

 

[franklin]

That tells you everything. Everything.

He gave Quin what everyone at the time thought was a totally unrealistic expectation to hit (being 2 games below .500 with a team that is the youngest in the NBA and had at the time was thought of no bench whatsoever), and Quin just might do it.

You're trying to box my ears for making a prediction that everyone once balked at but is now proven to be solidly a lofty goal?

-----


Now that you all have the benefit of hindsight, you can read back through this thread through the visionary eyes your profit franklin had in October. In terms our LDS members will relate to, I am the Samuel the Lamanite of Jazzfanzarahemla.

You can all laugh at my next major prediction as well, with the usual trolling cackle calls, but once again time will prove the idiots out and you can all come back out of the wood works as you are in this thread trying to spin my prediction somehow into your own genius.

I don't know why me being right all the damn time makes some of you so upset and paints a target on my back.

 

[LogGrad98]

That's the expectation the board has placed on a good coach. It's not my measuring stick.

There's too much to go into it for an up or down #, but somewhere in the low 30's will be par. I'd take out the first 15 games last season to set the baseline at 29.4 wins. Add about 3 based on building a team to succeed instead of for intentional failure (playing 4 on 5 lost a lot of games so this could arguably be more than +3). Add a couple more for internal growth. About 35 wins should be what an average coach can win.


If Corbin sucked as bad as this place claims then that should get bumped up by at least 5 more. I doubt the angry railbirds are either a) going to say that's their expectation or b) acknowledge how childish and stupid these tirades have been despite refusing to acknowledge a).


I won't judge the guy based off wins and loses this season, though 40 wins would more than win my love.

We just might do that, which is pretty cool. What if we end at 39 or 38? Realistically that might be the case.

 

[LogGrad98]

What? No coach in their right mind would have played Gobert much more last season. Combine that with the fact that the team has stank while Gobert has been on the floor this season... you just proved the opposite of what you set out to do.

Interesting exchange here. I forgot to multiquote so here is the one this is a response to:

Quote Originally Posted by VINYLONE View Post
Shouldn't the use of Gobert this preseason and regular season be enough proof that Corbin was mediocre at best?

It took Gobert what, about 1/3 of a season to really get going. Could he have done that last year with a solid chunk of starters minutes to get him going? Good question. I think there is a decent chance that it would have helped him a lot. What if he were at current, or close to current, form at the start of this season due to extra PT last year to work out the kinks?

 

[LogGrad98]

Did John Stockton "develop" his first three seasons in the NBA?

Well it depends. His per36 numbers his first 3 seasons were not that far off his career averages, which are pretty damn good. The tough thing was playing behind an already all-star guard in Rickey Green (who many fans here and elsewhere grossly under-rate). So where would Stock have ended up if he had been the PG to start with, right out of the gate? Better for the extra PT? Worse?

 

[LogGrad98]

3. I take issue with those who state that development is only a function of minutes and starting. Ludicrous.

IMO development is a factor of PT, coaching, and of course skill-set, talent, physical ability, maturity, drive, etc. Say individual ability. You will develop to whatever level of the first 2 you receive combined with the 3rd. So let's assume the 3rd one is solid, like most rookies taken in the first say 10 picks. If you are getting little PT but great coaching you will develop some, but you can only learn so much without time to put it into practice. If you are getting tons of PT and no coaching maybe the same, although then the worry of bad habits sets in. If you are getting plenty of PT to put learned skills into practice combined with solid coaching both in practice sessions and in-game, then it stands to reason you will enjoy the greatest development as a player, up to your personal threshold. There comes a point of course when coaching starts to mean less and personal will to improve is what drives the improvements. But in the first couple of years for a high pick it is hard to argue that PT does not matter as much as coaching. Look at Kobe for example. Had the physical ability and talent, was given PT and good coaching. Didn't turn out too bad when his personal drive started defining his play. Would he have been the same player if he had spent most of his time on the bench his first 2 seasons, or in the D-league? Tough to say.

 

[LogGrad98]

And yes I am bored, German TV sucks, and so I decided to just go through this thread and respond to (nearly) random posts.

 

[LogGrad98]

Nuh-uh.

This was a highly under-rated post.

 

[LogGrad98]

Absolutely.

What happened to OB anyway?

 

[LogGrad98]

The Kings have turned it around due to Ty's leadership from the bench.

Guess not.

 

[Stoked]

Gobert proves the argument. Nobody saw him exploding because he didn't play. Once he started playing for the National Team, people saw that he had the potential to explode.

Then wouldn't the argument be better made by saying that Corbin stiffed Gobert instead of "the youth"?

The mpg stats I posted made me rethink my stance of Ty shafted the youth to Ty wasn't the player development coach we were lead to believe. He tried and simply didn't have it.

 

[LogGrad98]

I feel like stepping up and reminding you that we are one single miracle shot from fully vindicating Ty Corbin. He might have been the best coach we ever had and we just didn't know how good we had it. This season is going to suck!

Fully eating crow on this one, and happy to. Thank you Gobert. It has never tasted so good.

 

[LogGrad98]

Ham-tied? Hog-strung?

Another under-rated post.

 

[LogGrad98]

Utah Jazz: 29th in team defense; no improvement.
Sacramento Kings: 14th in team defense; 9 spot improvement.

I told you what would happen if you gave Corbin a competent group of players.

Interesting how this has flip-flopped.

 

[LogGrad98]

Ok I'm bored of being bored. Gonna go take a suspiciously long shower.