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Kanter 30 Pts and 16 Rebs... And Now the Rest of the Story...

I posted on other thread but looks like discussion is here.

Quotes from nba forum.

A Mephis Grizzlies fan
"It is a guarantee that Kanter is going to be a monster offensively, IMO. Going into this game, I questioned his ceiling because of how badly he looked on defense when I had watched him before. However, he did a good job on Marc and ZBo for long stretches.
A combination of KD, Westbrook and a refined Kanter is a scary thing from the POV of a Western conference foe, but exciting as an NBA fan."

Golden State Warriors fan (lol on this one)
"Westbrooks MVP and Kanter is the next Wilt."

A Jazz fan (how clever of him.)
"Kanter with the stats and the L (as always)."

A Bucks fan responding to said Jazz fan
"I really don't think this one is on Kanter. He seemed to give quite a bit of effort tonight. I mean, still **** Kanter, but tonight's not really on him."
 
The Blue Elephant said:
I posted on other thread but looks like discussion is here.

Quotes from nba forum.

A Mephis Grizzlies fan
"It is a guarantee that Kanter is going to be a monster offensively, IMO. Going into this game, I questioned his ceiling because of how badly he looked on defense when I had watched him before. However, he did a good job on Marc and ZBo for long stretches.
A combination of KD, Westbrook and a refined Kanter is a scary thing from the POV of a Western conference foe, but exciting as an NBA fan."

Golden State Warriors fan (lol on this one)
"Westbrooks MVP and Kanter is the next Wilt."

A Jazz fan (how clever of him.)
"Kanter with the stats and the L (as always)."

A Bucks fan responding to said Jazz fan
"I really don't think this one is on Kanter. He seemed to give quite a bit of effort tonight. I mean, still **** Kanter, but tonight's not really on him."
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Quote from actual statistical fact: Memphis -- 60 points in the paint. Who is that on?
 
Flc said:
Hope they make the playoffs, get swept in the first round with Kanter's defense a major factor, max Kanter in the offseason, have a relatively ****ty year next year, and then see both Durant and Westbrook leave, and then languish for the next four years with Thunder fans crying daily about a contract that makes AK's old contract look like Steph Curry's current one.
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Sounds like the ex mentality.
But all the while this is happening is our life crappy too?

Are we angry because Kanter told blatant lies? Or that there is some truth to what he is saying?

Who is the last big name free agent we attracted?

I love the lockout that didn't fix anything for small market teams /s.
 
stitches said:
How was the Jazz management supposed to manage Kanter exactly so he wouldn't become discontent? Give him everything on a silver platter? We let 2 all-stars walk so Kanter would have playing time.
We shouldn't have taken Rudy in the draft? We shouldn't have gotten a competent 4th big in Booker? We should have kept Rudy on the bench more? Or should we have traded Favors so poor lil Enes wouldn't be mad cuz he's not getting minutes he doesn't deserve. Hell, he was getting outplayed by Booker at times this season. What does that tell you? He wasn't interested in staying in Utah, it's plain and simple. And he said it - he wasn't bringing it every night.

I don't get the people defending him and absolving him of all responsibility for the way things turned out and the way he played throughout the years. It's like defending your ex that dumped you but you are still in love with, while she goes around town telling people what a POS you are, even though she wasn't the one holding her end of the responsibilities in the relationship. And you are like - "oh but look, how good she is with her new boyfriend, and I hear she even gives him head every once in a while, wonder why she never did that for me, even though I did everything for her... I wish we could be back together, even if she hates me and still 'doesn't bring it every night' "...

The organization might not be the perfect one in the league, they might have made some mistakes through the years in their trades and in the way they developed the young players early, but in the last couple of years Kanter has absolutely nothing to quibble about. He was the starting center and was getting 28 minutes every night, even though we had a better option than him. He had a coaching staff that according to reports was spending inordinate amount of time trying to teach him and work on his game. Hell I think towards the end he was showing some nice improvements even in his defensive game. He felt the pressure from a 2nd year player and saw the writing on the wall and stormed out asking for a trade citing how he was managed 3 years ago by different management and different coaching staff? Are you ****ing kidding me? Then after his wish was granted he turns around and throws mud at everybody in the organization from teammates to coaching staff to FO to fans to the city. And we are supposed to feel bad about losing him? Are you ****ing kidding me? What kind of masochism is that? I am sorry but there really aren't 50 shades of grey in that story.

He was a child who wanted everything gifted to him and when he didn't get it or felt like wasn't going to get it, he threw a tantrum and fled away. He wanted the playing time without being held responsible for his lack of effort or horrible team play on both ends. Why wouldn't we be wishing him to fail?

I hope he gets his max, I hope KD and Westbrook storm out in a couple of years and he's left with an untradable contract on a lottery team forever.
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For a fact during the TY Cor year Kanter had a rough time. I am not suggestion we coddle players nor that he didn't share some blame but on the flip side people are absolving the Jazz of blame as well. I watched Boozer's career languish under Tibs because he was a poor defender so Taj would get his minutes and he was never made an important part of the offense. Good coaches manage the pluses and minuses of players.

Is he behaving like a child on the court in OKC now?
 
KD's Framily said:
And the Bulls were better because of it. If Thibs had decided to cater to Boozer instead of to the Chicago Bulls as a whole, Boozer would've gotten his and the team would've been worse.
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You have proof of this? I am willing to take any trivial number.

Trivial numbers
Bulls - 41/41 year before Booz
Bulls - 62/20 year with Booz

But let us avoid a long, irrelevant conversation (and for the record I am a Booz fan) you need to take the good and bad in life. Booz good (traditional back to the basket PF that had recent range and a fierce rebounder) outweighed his cons (horrible defender who would ball watch) and you build a team to suit. Favors will never be Booz offensively but you do not need him to be once you have someone else who will be the offense (Hayward).

Look, The Blue Elephant is right on one point - fans here will marginalize Kanter as best they can.

When Kanter did well in OKC immediately it was "oh he does well one night and poorly the next night". So said it happened and fans here said "I told you so". Not that you cannot do well every night.
When Kanter put together back to back good performances it was against weak teams.
When Kanter put together a good sample size of solid performances it is at the detriment of the team.

It is our way of protecting our egos. I wish we would remember Kanter but move past Kanter. He is not a Jazz and he can do nothing for us. We need to fix our own issues.
 
Nicksti said:
Jazz fanatics want Kanter to bust to protect the organization.

If Kanter continues to perform well then what will be our excuse? That you still don't want that kind of player in the organization who will tank if he isn't happy? What about the role of management to properly manage players?

2013-14 was a tank year.
2014-2015 is a tank year.
If 2015-2016 we are tanking again what does that really say about the organization?

Somewhere along the way what Kanter said about the Jazz will either be bitter lies or the horrible truth.

And for Jazz fans to laugh at the notion of Kanter getting a max contract all the while having a max contract in Hayward on the books seems like pots and kettles.
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I love the Kanter excuses. Did you forget the Jazz were still in tank mode with Kanter starting?

The Jazz left tank more because of the emergence of Gobert and to some extent Exum (which seems wrong saying but look at our record with Exum starting vs coming off the bench).

It's all excuses with Kanter. He was drafted #3 to carry this team to a title. He failed horribly. It took Gobert to do what Kanter was supposed to do.

We started Kanter over Gobert, which wasn't the right thing to do.

We starter Kanter at PF and moved Favors to C, which wasn't the right thing to do.

The coaches spent a majority of their time with Kanter, which turned out to be a mistake.

Utah did everything they could to help Kanter succeed, including putting Kanter's needs above everyone else's.

Kanter failed here. Not Utah. Kanter was clearly the problem, not Utah. Utah has developed 2 of their three young big men into winners. Kanter decided he didn't want to buy in. He's gone now and Utah is a lot better for it.

And we added a first round pick along the way. Utah clearly won in this trade.
 
I absolutely agree with Spinoza. Watched OKC play last night and Kanter in the first quarter alone gave up at least 10 points on defense in the first quarter while scoring four of his own. He just stops nobody when its one on one. He was rebounding terribly well though this is no new flash, we know he can rebound. SO DOES RUDY. I don't think anyone (well....few) hate Kanter personally, just that he is so immature/selfish in his outlook. I feel we are better off without him. We all felt that someone would have to be lost from our frontline and I am O.K. with it being Enes.
 
Seeing all these huge statistical games from Kanter make it all the more obvious he was dogging it in Utah. It makes me dislike him even more.
 
KD's Framily said:
I suppose I can't speak for everybody, and I know this is a bit of a reach, but I'm guessing our excuse will be that the Jazz are playing a hell of a lot better without him.
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This, obviously.
Well said
 
Grandpa Jazz said:
I absolutely agree with Spinoza. Watched OKC play last night and Kanter in the first quarter alone gave up at least 10 points on defense in the first quarter while scoring four of his own. He just stops nobody when its one on one. He was rebounding terribly well though this is no new flash, we know he can rebound. SO DOES RUDY. I don't think anyone (well....few) hate Kanter personally, just that he is so immature/selfish in his outlook. I feel we are better off without him. We all felt that someone would have to be lost from our frontline and I am O.K. with it being Enes.
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That is simply not true. You could have picked about 20 other games to pick on and would have had a valid point. Last night was arguably a decent defensive game by Enes. Gasol and Randolph, two prolific low post scorers, had 12 points between them in the 1st quarter. Enes was not guarding both of them. They both finished the game around their averages for the season. If you watch the game Enes was coming off his man and helping more than usual, even altered some shots. There's no question he needs to work on his defense, but the notion that he won't get better at it is simply sour grapes. He's a special talent, time will tell if he becomes the best overall player he can be.

As for all the vitriol toward him over his comments, blown way out of proportion. When he said he wasn't bringing it every night, it was self-deprecating in the sense that he was saying he understood he wasn't as good as he could be. The interpretation that he intentionally dogged it is silly. As for organizational professionalism, he could have been talking about the players and not management. In fact, judging by the players' responses, they understood it that way too. When he said he didn't have a lot of friends on the team, it's obvious that there had been some acrimony with some players. Nobody in the media and none of you knows exactly what was going on behind the scenes.

As for the Jazz giving him minutes, he was relegated to being a decoy jump shooter. If that's the aspect of his game they were working hard on, then it's understandable that he wanted out. Kid is coming up on a new contract and understandably wanted to show what he could do. No biggie, worked out well for both teams. While Enes has some growing up to do, it seems that fans do too.
 
I don't think Enes mailed it home with us, nor do I think that's what he meant. I just don't think our players responded to his picks like Westbrook, nor did anyone on our team attack the rack leaving as many options available for put-backs, and I also think our perimeter players don't make the selves as available to the pass as those on OKc do (reference Derrick in the double team last game).

We would have seen more from Enes has we seen him with an established PG. I really think it is that simple. Offensive big men need PG's to shine (Hayward was our main ball-handler, and he was sort of freezing him out, and also not as good in PnR as a Westbrook).

The Grizzlies game was another example of the good and bad of Enes on defense. It was honestly the same as we saw here. Lots of misplaced effort. Some sets he was efficient, but more often than not, he was mucking up the PnR defense and finding himself on the smaller/quicker defender and leaving a little to gaurd a big. It's like he thinks he should make that switch and isn't always forced into it. It honestly looks as though he initiates that unfavorable mismatch by his body placement. Good thing for OKC, he should be able to be coached out of this stupid behavior. He'll never be a Rudy or a Derrick, but he shouldn't be a Boozer/ Al type either. He had a block and a stl last night.
 
Capsman said:
That is simply not true. You could have picked about 20 other games to pick on and would have had a valid point. Last night was arguably a decent defensive game by Enes. Gasol and Randolph, two prolific low post scorers, had 12 points between them in the 1st quarter. Enes was not guarding both of them. They both finished the game around their averages for the season. If you watch the game Enes was coming off his man and helping more than usual, even altered some shots. There's no question he needs to work on his defense, but the notion that he won't get better at it is simply sour grapes. He's a special talent, time will tell if he becomes the best overall player he can be.

As for all the vitriol toward him over his comments, blown way out of proportion. When he said he wasn't bringing it every night, it was self-deprecating in the sense that he was saying he understood he wasn't as good as he could be. The interpretation that he intentionally dogged it is silly. As for organizational professionalism, he could have been talking about the players and not management. In fact, judging by the players' responses, they understood it that way too. When he said he didn't have a lot of friends on the team, it's obvious that there had been some acrimony with some players. Nobody in the media and none of you knows exactly what was going on behind the scenes.

As for the Jazz giving him minutes, he was relegated to being a decoy jump shooter. If that's the aspect of his game they were working hard on, then it's understandable that he wanted out. Kid is coming up on a new contract and understandably wanted to show what he could do. No biggie, worked out well for both teams. While Enes has some growing up to do, it seems that fans do too.
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You probably don't understand because most of us here are fans of the Utah Jazz. Many of us have been fans (again, of the Utah Jazz) for decades. I was a fan of the Utah Jazz before Kanter was born.

So, being fans of the Utah Jazz first we're all happy to hate someone who has gone out of their way to be a villain to the Utah Jazz.

Since you're not a fan of the Utah Jazz I don't expect you to understand.
 
KD's Framily said:
Check it out guys, I found The Blue Elephant on Reddit!

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2wadjc/enes_kanter_zach_randolph/cop1nxa

You know TBE, if this is how you really feel about the Utah Jazz:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/commen...hread_thunder_cool_down_the_heat_9475/cpnhcwy

Why are you still posting here?
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Ya thats me. I thought I made it obvious when I linked stuff from reddit that I said while linking the thread. That quote is bad. I should have said "almost makes me wish." But take it however you want.
 
twenty-three said:
How? By sitting on the bench?
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He was a 2 year starter. He was probably pissed that he was about to be Burke'd. Placed on the bench. I have no proof of this but I think he was either told or saw it coming that he was going to be on the bench by the end of the year.
 
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