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Kanter 30 Pts and 16 Rebs... And Now the Rest of the Story...

Capsman said:
That is simply not true. You could have picked about 20 other games to pick on and would have had a valid point. Last night was arguably a decent defensive game by Enes. Gasol and Randolph, two prolific low post scorers, had 12 points between them in the 1st quarter. Enes was not guarding both of them. They both finished the game around their averages for the season. If you watch the game Enes was coming off his man and helping more than usual, even altered some shots. There's no question he needs to work on his defense, but the notion that he won't get better at it is simply sour grapes. He's a special talent, time will tell if he becomes the best overall player he can be.

As for all the vitriol toward him over his comments, blown way out of proportion. When he said he wasn't bringing it every night, it was self-deprecating in the sense that he was saying he understood he wasn't as good as he could be. The interpretation that he intentionally dogged it is silly. As for organizational professionalism, he could have been talking about the players and not management. In fact, judging by the players' responses, they understood it that way too. When he said he didn't have a lot of friends on the team, it's obvious that there had been some acrimony with some players. Nobody in the media and none of you knows exactly what was going on behind the scenes.

As for the Jazz giving him minutes, he was relegated to being a decoy jump shooter. If that's the aspect of his game they were working hard on, then it's understandable that he wanted out. Kid is coming up on a new contract and understandably wanted to show what he could do. No biggie, worked out well for both teams. While Enes has some growing up to do, it seems that fans do too.
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Why can't you just get over it? Kanter isn't on the Jazz anymore. Move on bro.
 
gregbroncs said:
He was a 2 year starter. He was probably pissed that he was about to be Burke'd. Placed on the bench. I have no proof of this but I think he was either told or saw it coming that he was going to be on the bench by the end of the year.
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I don't think you need any proof here. If it wasn't obvious to Enes, without being told, that Gobert's stature has grown beyond his in the eyes of coaches, fans, even national media....then he'd have to be quite thick.

He's even thicker if he thinks it was a personal thing. If OKC had Gobert and Kanter right now, they'd start Gobert over him 10 times out of 10, too.
 
One thing is certain: Kanter is an offensive juggernaut. Seriously. Man has serious skills and can put up big offensive numbers and grab a lot of boards. In the right situation he will average a double double. His defense is lacking but in the right situation his lapses can be accommodated. And that's just it. Utah turned out not to be the right recipe for him to succeed. My biggest complaint is that Utah didn't manage to trade him for something more substantial, because clearly he's gonna get paid. I think he's immature, his comments about Utah were bullsock, and I'll boo him every time because villains are fun.


Sent from the JazzFanz app
 
I remember after the trade that I pointed out how Enes' presence on the court helped Hayward be efficient offensively on a nightly basis, and I was negged like three times for it. Being someone who always found it fun to kick the hornets' nest, I think I'll point out that I was right.

Pre All-Star Hayward shot 46% from the field and 39% from three.

Post All-Star Hayward has shot 41% from the field and 28% from three.

https://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4249/gordon-hayward



We all need to hope Alec is enough of a force to complement Hayward, or that Exum and Hood progress a lot in the offseason, or we get someone really skilled offensively in the offseason, otherwise we could see the return of inefficient Hayward, which is unhappy Hayward.
 
Sexual Favors said:
I remember after the trade that I pointed out how Enes' presence on the court helped Hayward be efficient offensively on a nightly basis, and I was negged like three times for it. Being someone who always found it fun to kick the hornets' nest, I think I'll point out that I was right.

Pre All-Star Hayward shot 46% from the field and 39% from three.

Post All-Star Hayward has shot 41% from the field and 28% from three.

https://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4249/gordon-hayward



We all need to hope Alec is enough of a force to complement Hayward, or that Exum and Hood progress a lot in the offseason, or we get someone really skilled offensively in the offseason, otherwise we could see the return of inefficient Hayward, which is unhappy Hayward.
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Unlike Kanter, I think Hayward prefers getting W's than putting up good stats. So I doubt he'd be unhappy as long as we are winning.
 
magic said:
Unlike Kanter, I think Hayward prefers getting W's than putting up good stats. So I doubt he'd be unhappy as long as we are winning.
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They both like winning.

Hayward would still criticize himself after wins where he was inefficient last year. Perfectuonists don't like being inefficient. He'll nitpick himself for every game not won. We just need to find another scorer, which is probably Alec--so we're good.
 
The thing I do like about Enes is he's added a lot of drama to this season and given us a lot to talk about. In a way I'm thankful he's such an idiot I don't think I'd change anything.
 
Sexual Favors said:
I remember after the trade that I pointed out how Enes' presence on the court helped Hayward be efficient offensively on a nightly basis, and I was negged like three times for it. Being someone who always found it fun to kick the hornets' nest, I think I'll point out that I was right.

Pre All-Star Hayward shot 46% from the field and 39% from three.

Post All-Star Hayward has shot 41% from the field and 28% from three.

https://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4249/gordon-hayward



We all need to hope Alec is enough of a force to complement Hayward, or that Exum and Hood progress a lot in the offseason, or we get someone really skilled offensively in the offseason, otherwise we could see the return of inefficient Hayward, which is unhappy Hayward.
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Before the All Star break Utah Jazz has the hardest schedule in the entire NBA. After the allstar break the Utah Jazz have the easiest schedule in the entire NBA. Crazy Gordon shot so low.
 
Sexual Favors said:
They both like winning.

Hayward would still criticize himself after wins where he was inefficient last year. Perfectuonists don't like being inefficient. He'll nitpick himself for every game not won. We just need to find another scorer, which is probably Alec--so we're good.
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No, Kanter prefers to have good stats.

Also, wanting to be more efficient does not equate to being unhappy.
 
I'm not going to go full tilt about Kanter being ABSOLUTE rubbish. He is probably a net-positive for OKC. The reason he's dead to me is for what a little ****ing **** he was on the Jazz and how he approached the entire thing from the outset through to now. A selfish ****ing turd, but selfish turds can win too.
 
Capsman said:
That is simply not true. You could have picked about 20 other games to pick on and would have had a valid point. Last night was arguably a decent defensive game by Enes. Gasol and Randolph, two prolific low post scorers, had 12 points between them in the 1st quarter. Enes was not guarding both of them. They both finished the game around their averages for the season. If you watch the game Enes was coming off his man and helping more than usual, even altered some shots. There's no question he needs to work on his defense, but the notion that he won't get better at it is simply sour grapes. He's a special talent, time will tell if he becomes the best overall player he can be.

As for all the vitriol toward him over his comments, blown way out of proportion. When he said he wasn't bringing it every night, it was self-deprecating in the sense that he was saying he understood he wasn't as good as he could be. The interpretation that he intentionally dogged it is silly. As for organizational professionalism, he could have been talking about the players and not management. In fact, judging by the players' responses, they understood it that way too. When he said he didn't have a lot of friends on the team, it's obvious that there had been some acrimony with some players. Nobody in the media and none of you knows exactly what was going on behind the scenes.

As for the Jazz giving him minutes, he was relegated to being a decoy jump shooter. If that's the aspect of his game they were working hard on, then it's understandable that he wanted out. Kid is coming up on a new contract and understandably wanted to show what he could do. No biggie, worked out well for both teams. While Enes has some growing up to do, it seems that fans do too.
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Hey, look, this ga-guy knows what Enes Kanter thinks and does. He must know how Penes knows how to make his bed, too and his favorite sex position and signature moves.

Time to let it go bro, you either are stalking or getting piledrived by Kanter.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Why can't you just get over it? Kanter isn't on the Jazz anymore. Move on bro.
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It's so weird. A lot of Jazz men have come and gone over the years, but I don't recall ever seeing the kind of creepy groupie circle Kanter has formed with any other player (that wasn't a Jazz legend like Stockton of course). Guess there's just something about enis that these guys can't get enough of.
 
Spinoza said:
It's so weird. A lot of Jazz men have come and gone over the years, but I don't recall ever seeing the kind of creepy groupie circle Kanter has formed with any other player (that wasn't a Jazz legend like Stockton of course). Guess there's just something about enis that these guys can't get enough of.
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He is a polarizing figure. He is one of the main reasons why I became a Jazz fan in 2011 after I was a PHX Suns fan. He is probably the best Muslim NBA player in the NBA right now. After Shaq, Kareem, and Hakeem retiring there aren't many left who are that good.
 
magic said:
No, Kanter prefers to have good stats.
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Because Locke said so? I don't buy it. He seemed very happy and genuine whenever we won, and dejected when we didn't. Same thing in OKC. Just because someone is cognizant of their stats doesn't mean they don't like winning. Maybe the argument you posted below applies to him as well. He cares because he wants to be efficient.

magic said:
Also, wanting to be more efficient does not equate to being unhappy.
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You're right, but for Hayward it did. He took his inefficiencies personal last year. A good thing, because he used it as motivation to get better. But while he was inefficient and unhappy, his body language had a negative impact on the team.

Look, I like Hayward. He was actually my favorite player before Enes was. I'm just pointing out that he has been inefficient post-Enes, and it is something we need to address. Hayward asked to get rid of Al, but Al had made him more efficient. Hayward wanted to get rid of Enes (freezing him out, blog post, etc.) but Enes made him more efficient. He needs someone else to help carry the offensive load. More than Favors has done (although Favors has been great, the respect from opponents is different still) I think Burks will help a lot.

Hayward is a very good #2, or a psuedo #1 if he plays with another #2 option.
 
Sexual Favors said:
I remember after the trade that I pointed out how Enes' presence on the court helped Hayward be efficient offensively on a nightly basis, and I was negged like three times for it. Being someone who always found it fun to kick the hornets' nest, I think I'll point out that I was right.

Pre All-Star Hayward shot 46% from the field and 39% from three.

Post All-Star Hayward has shot 41% from the field and 28% from three.

https://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4249/gordon-hayward



We all need to hope Alec is enough of a force to complement Hayward, or that Exum and Hood progress a lot in the offseason, or we get someone really skilled offensively in the offseason, otherwise we could see the return of inefficient Hayward, which is unhappy Hayward.
Click to expand...

Good find. And also:

Pre-trade Hayward: 57.9 TS%
Post-trade Hayward: 54.8 TS%

However, this needs further context:

February: 47.8% (A staggering 10.1% below pre-trade)
Since: 57.2% (0.7% below pre-trade)

So yes, initially Hayward struggled quite a bit since the Kanter trade. However, from the beginning of March til now, he has been scoring at a highly efficient level and very close to his pre-trade shooting. So, I don't think the effect of Kanter's absence on Hayward's efficiency is a concern.

All that having been said, it sure would be nice if people could respond to contrarian viewpoints more civilly. This was a good find by Sexual Favors and definitely worth discussing. Not too impressed with the people who didn't address any of your arguments and just resorted to petty trolling...
 
Kanter's cult (and the cult's members) are nothing for any Muslim NBA fan to cherish or appreciate.
 
KD's Framily said:
Good find. And also:

Pre-trade Hayward: 57.9 TS%
Post-trade Hayward: 54.8 TS%

However, this needs further context:

February: 47.8% (A staggering 10.1% below pre-trade)
Since: 57.2% (0.7% below pre-trade)

So yes, initially Hayward struggled quite a bit since the Kanter trade. However, from the beginning of March til now, he has been scoring at a highly efficient level and very close to his pre-trade shooting. So, I don't think the effect of Kanter's absence on Hayward's efficiency is a concern.

All that having been said, it sure would be nice if people could respond to contrarian viewpoints more civilly. This was a good find by Sexual Favors and definitely worth discussing. Not too impressed with the people who didn't address any of your arguments and just resorted to petty trolling...
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Good post, and thank you for coming to my defense again.

As an average, I think your claim in bold is correct, but March has also seen some pretty questionable performances form Hayward.

Last game, he shot 37% for 13 pts, but did shoot 50% from deep.

vs OKC he shot 25% and 0% from three.

vs GSW he shot 23% and 25% from three for 11 pts.

and on Feb 28th before March started he shot 22% and 20% from three vs the Bucks.

So while his March #'s averaged out to not be troublesome, his consistency has been. The way I see it anyways.
 
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