2015 NBA Playoffs

[Fabtrey]

Duncan number 6? His peak value is very high in my book. I think he and Hakeem are interchangeable, though I'd probably put Duncan just ahead of him. Then again, I am just an uninformed child. I agree with Shaq's peak being #2. Dude was unstoppable.

#100RAPclub

yeah i think so. IMO, hakeem was a better offensive player at his peak. both were top 3-4 greatest post defender. duncan had better overall intangibles. but offensively hakeem was just too nasty. i think duncan being too unselfish kinda hurts him. and remember hakeem did his thing against ewing and shaq. that's huge.

and yup. shaq was playing at 335-345lb in his peak. absolutely ridiculous. imagine he was 20lb lighter and was better at FT. he really would've averaged 40/20 in the playoffs. and IMO, that would put his peak ahead of MJ's peak.

 

[moevillini]

Is this thread supposed to be a draft outline for the script of a new "Back to the Future" movie?

 

[Fabtrey]

...Googled "what NBA records does Shaq hold/have?"

don't disrespect the big aristotle. shaq avged 30/15 in the playoffs in his peak while shooting high fg%. and that's with shooting so many bricks at the FT line. and that's with getting hacked everytime he had a ball. he was a monster amongst bunch of kids. he wasn't ready for hakeem because he was too young. but he still avg 28pts against him.


ultimately he could've been much better which is a scary thought. IMO, he played 20lb too heavy after 98 season. and having kobe by his side hurt his stat. you put any decent 2 guard next to him, shaq would take the team to championship. it was automatic. too bad he didn't have kobe's drive.

 

[The Thriller]

Duncan still being disrespected.

He's #2 on my list. The Big Fundamental was so damn good for so damn long. For the past 5 or so years his team has moved to a fast tempo offense. People forget how dominate a post player he truly was from 97-2010.

He could defend anything too, from guards to bigs. So damn good.

 

[The Thriller]

It's difficult to judge someone "at their peak." There are too many variables. At his peak, Mailman was unstoppable. The problem always was, he always played with centers who could barely even dunk. If Malone was at his peak in the mid 2000s with Money Memo and with the def 3 second rule, he would've averaged 40 pts.

Unfortunately, he played in a different era with centers who were horrible on offense. Honestly, the mere fact he won the MVP award with a guy like ostertag at center is a testament to his greatness. Tag was worthless.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

shaq was playing at 335-345lb in his peak. absolutely ridiculous. imagine he was 20lb lighter and was better at FT. he really would've averaged 40/20 in the playoffs. and IMO, that would put his peak ahead of MJ's peak.

Yep, and imagine if Lebron was 100 pounds heavier and had wings. Then he could play by himself and still win all the rings. Shaq was who he was, a massively strong dude who was dominant because of size and strength, but not great at the game of basketball. These what ifs could be said about anybody, so I don't see the point.
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Still love that dude's line about there not being a single woman in the WNBA that wasn't better than Shaq at shooting FTs. Kinda puts things in perspective a bit.

 

[Fabtrey]

Duncan still being disrespected.

He's #2 on my list. The Big Fundamental was so damn good for so damn long. For the past 5 or so years his team has moved to a fast tempo offense. People forget how dominate a post player he truly was from 97-2010.

He could defend anything too, from guards to bigs. So damn good.

how is he being disrespected when he is in the top 10? NBA has many legends. i think it's not a disrespect when you have a guy in the top 10 all time. when you are in top 10, you are in an elite category. and mailman in his peak was never as good as charles barkley or duncan. you can even argue KG had a better overall peak than malone because of the defense he brings.

and one thing that hurts duncan is that he played in a weak big men era.

 

[Fabtrey]

Yep, and imagine if Lebron was 100 pounds heavier and had wings. Then he could play by himself and still win all the rings. Shaq was who he was, a massively strong dude who was dominant because of size and strength, but not great at the game of basketball. These what ifs could be said about anybody, so I don't see the point.
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Still love that dude's line about there not being a single woman in the WNBA that wasn't better than Shaq at shooting FTs. Kinda puts things in perspective a bit.

that's a retarded statement. if bron was 6ft 195lb then he would be eric bledsoe with a better court vision. shaq was who he was - the most physically gifted big men ever walked on earth who didn't really care about taking care of his body. he wasn't eating avocado ice cream for desserts for sure. and maintaining weight can be done regardless who you are. anybody can control their weight especially if they are athletes. shaq decided he didn't have to as long as he shows up in the playoffs which he did. i think carrying that extra 15-20lb hurt his performance. kobe will tell you that.

and you know nothing about basketball if you thought shaq was just a big dude. dude's post move was great. it's very simple, but effective. we've also never seen such a size/speed combo. shaq's footwork is criminally underrated. and who cares about FT? wilt was awful at FT too. hacka shaq never stopped him from getting 4 rings. and if he took care of his body, and kobe was willing to be a robin, then we are talking about 6-7 rings. just too bad kobe was an alpha who wanted to be a lead dog. if shaq had wade instead of kobe, lakers would've built 7-8 year long dynasty for sure.

just look at this nimble feet.

 

[Fabtrey]

 

[Fabtrey]

It's difficult to judge someone "at their peak." There are too many variables. At his peak, Mailman was unstoppable. The problem always was, he always played with centers who could barely even dunk. If Malone was at his peak in the mid 2000s with Money Memo and with the def 3 second rule, he would've averaged 40 pts.

Unfortunately, he played in a different era with centers who were horrible on offense. Honestly, the mere fact he won the MVP award with a guy like ostertag at center is a testament to his greatness. Tag was worthless.

and let's not be silly. malone would not average 40 in today's league. not even close. nobody is averaging 40 unless it's MJ in a bad lottery team. 1 guy avging 40 hurts the team. no team will allow that.

 

[Fabtrey]

larry bird and bron comparisons
https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm

most glaring difference - bron wasm5 times all defensive team and bird with zero. and bird avging 3 more rebound per game than bron. other than that, everything is very close.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

DJ, Ainge, Bron, McHale, Parish.

I'd feel bad for Magic, Worthy, Zeke, Dumars, Dr J and Moses.

 

[carolinajazz]

....and mailman in his peak was never as good as charles barkley or duncan. you can even argue KG had a better overall peak than malone because of the defense he brings.

Barkley at his peak was never as good as Karl Malone at his peak....and to compare Garnett with Malone is ludicrous! Malone has 2 MVP's and a boat load of career records that bury both Barkley and Garnet in a 10 foot snow drift! Malone went to back to back Finals against the M.J. Bulls and was one bad call from beating them once! Garnet is a puke who's game has deteriorated so badly as to not even be recognizable anymore! Points, rebounds, assists....it's not even close!

 

[carolinajazz]

and you know nothing about basketball if you thought shaq was just a big dude. dude's post move was great. it's very simple, but effective. we've also never seen such a size/speed combo. shaq's footwork is criminally underrated.

"shaq's footwork is criminally underrated" alright! That's because it was CRIMINAL! It's called TRAVELING, shuffling the feet, taking steps, etc!

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Barkley at his peak was never as good as Karl Malone at his peak....and to compare Garnett with Malone is ludicrous! Malone has 2 MVP's and a boat load of career records that bury both Barkley and Garnet in a 10 foot snow drift! Malone went to back to back Finals against the M.J. Bulls and was one bad call from beating them once! Garnet is a puke who's game has deteriorated so badly as to not even be recognizable anymore! Points, rebounds, assists....it's not even close!

Re: Malone v Barkley

PER they were about even. Defense Malone >>>> Barkley. Malone 2 championship appearances, Barkley 1.

Slight edge, Mailman. Sorry fabtrey, just being honest!

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

that's a retarded statement.
and you know nothing about basketball if you thought shaq was just a big dude. we've also never seen such a size/speed combo. shaq's footwork is criminally underrated. and who cares about FT? lol

It wasn't just FTs, dude was not good at shooting the ball. He was great at bullying people due to his size. I watched Yao ming mop the floor with Shaq while he was still in his prime. Lucky for Shaq that Yao's career was cut short, so that fans like you could be confused about his greatness. Shaq = overrated and your opinion sucks donkey gilblets. lol on that.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Since this has turned into a Shaq critique thread I want to add that I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed if they dropped him from Inside the NBA.

 

[Stoked]

Since this has turned into a Shaq critique thread I want to add that I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed if they dropped him from Inside the NBA.

They were better without him.

 

[Fabtrey]

It wasn't just FTs, dude was not good at shooting the ball. He was great at bullying people due to his size. I watched Yao ming mop the floor with Shaq while he was still in his prime. Lucky for Shaq that Yao's career was cut short, so that fans like you could be confused about his greatness. Shaq = overrated and your opinion sucks donkey gilblets. lol on that.

he is shaq. the diesel. he doesn't have to shoot. he is a bully in the middle. you don't want shaq to shoot. shaq had 3 moves. and he used those 3 moves better than any centers. and shaq always shot high fg%.

i'm a big yao guy. yao never faced shaq in his prime. shaq started to decline right after 3 peat. makes sense because he was already in the league for 10 years. yao would get fouled out by half time if he plays prime shaq the way he always played shaq.

yao vs. shaq
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=onealsh01

yao is an all time talent. once he has the ball deep it was pretty much automatic. such a great soft hands with variety of moves. yao destroyed dwight howard too head to head. but head to head is just a small part of a discussion because everyone has a matchup nightmare. when yao and shaq played together it was a must see TV and both played very well.

i'm not even a shaq fan. i hate the lakers. but he was a great player. 4 rings, dominant stat line, high fg%, great defensive presence(very underrated aspect of his game), and all time playoff performer.

yao may have been a HOFer too. but availability is a skill in itself. so don't disrespect shaq by comparing him with yao. that's so disrespectful.

 

[Fabtrey]

Re: Malone v Barkley

PER they were about even. Defense Malone >>>> Barkley. Malone 2 championship appearances, Barkley 1.

Slight edge, Mailman. Sorry fabtrey, just being honest!

the big difference for me is the fg% and rebounding.
honestly, it's just a matter of preference. both are so damn close. if barkley is a natural talent, karl to me is an engineered cyborg. but i'm a big fg% guy and having stockton does kinda hurt karl a little. i know it ain't karl's fault that he played stockton, but when 2 players are so damn close, you gotta start nitpicking.

it's easy for us to just say karl is the 2nd greatest PF, but i've taken my homer glasses off for over a decade now. it's kinda liberating.

1. duncan
2. charles
3. karl
4. kg
5. mchale
6. dirk
7. cwebb

that would be my pf list.