Following potential 2015 draftees

[stitches]

Reading this post again it almost seems like you are saying that Burks inability to get to the hoop/paint is what's holding him back. That sounds pretty dumb

Burks has plenty of weaknesses..... Getting by his man is not one of them.
Burks drive game as his main strength.

I thought everyone knew that

And overlooking better parts of his offense(spot up shooting - 43% this year, 42% last year - ~1.25ppp) in favor of what is good point of his game(drives and finishes around the rim - 49% this year, 56% last year - 1.03 ppp*) is one of the problems with his game - shot selection, urge to put the ball on the floor before he does something with it - be it shooting it(usually does the one dribble pullup long 2 with foot on the 3p line), or make a drive for a contested layup.

*I was actually generous here - those are all types of finishes around the rim, including transitions, uncontested dunks on cuts, etc. In fact he shot 37.5% on drives this year and 47.5% last year, which would only come to show you how inefficient his drive game is. We just remember the flashy ones and forget all the ones that end up with a miss.

 

[♪alt13]

I mean, don't get me wrong, people do have some trouble staying in front of him, but he isn't Russell Westbrook with his blow by capability. People can and do stay in front of him.

What makes Westbrook so dangerous isn't getting by his man it's what he does once he has.

 

[Coach Ellis]

i have been saying for a few months now that the jazz need to trade burke and move Burks into the back up PG and SG

And I think that you're very right in your belief. I think Burks would be amazing in the role that Burke filled from the bench last year.

What makes Westbrook so dangerous isn't getting by his man it's what he does once he has.

I agree with this. I'm still hopeful that Alec Burks can become a consistent scorer for this team without sacrificing defensively like Burke did. I like Trey, but I just don't have a lot of faith in him.

 

[Maneesh]

Burks averages 8 fg attempts per game for his career and 3.5 free throw attempts per game in 22.7 minutes a game.

I'm confident that if Burks averages 36 minutes per game and has, let's say 18 field goal attempts per game, that he would average 20 pts per game.

Getting past his defender is not what is preventing him from averaging 20 points per game.


Then again, I'm not even sure why you brought the whole 20 pts thing up.
Ingles could average 20 pts per game if he shoots enough and plays enough minutes.

I watch the jazz play and don't see defenders able to stay in front of Burks. That is what I was commenting on.

I agree and I think mostly he is efficent enough that he could score a little more. We need a guys that can get 20 consistently and I think thats Hayward, but of burks can also get around 18 our startings wings will be two of the best in the league with two of the best front court. I really think the Jazz will be amazing next year and the roster is underated by everyone include locke who says he will trade our roster for Twolves.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'm starting to think the gem pick in the 2nd tier of players might be Turner---a 7-footer who can hit 18-foot jumpers, finish inside with his length and maintain our defensive intensity. Those jumpers are always going to be there for him. His mobility doesn't even have to be all that good. He has great physical tools.

 

[zyzz]

-I have him around the early 20's and would advocate trading the 2 second round picks up for him.

I'd be down for this. If we can find some team in the 20s who doesn't want another guaranteed contract on the books, I'd trade the second rounders for him. I've really liked him since he was draftexpress's prospect of the week like 6 months ago.

For those who pay more attention to college basketball and the whole draft process. . . what's the deal with Cliff Alexander?

He seems to be a guy who was projected as top 10 (at worst) before he went to Kansas, but then his Freshman year was such a disaster that he's now lucky if he gets drafted. DX has him mocked to the Jazz at #42. I'm surprised that he hasn't generated more discussion.

What caused him to fall so far in just one year. I can understand major character issues or a serious injury leading to a tumble, but I haven't come across anything like that yet. So why is he being projected to the 2nd round?

It seems to be a case of him dominating children in high school since he was a physical beast. Dude looks like he's 30 years old and he's 19. I remember watching his highlights when he was the #2 prospect in the class and thinking that he didn't look that good. Also, if you guys think Portis sounds dumb, go listen to Cliff Alexander's interviews. He blames Coach Self for not playing him, he says that in the NBA you can expect to see "high school Cliff Alexander" type domination (if he couldn't dominate college players, how the hell is he going to dominate NBA players?). He also said in 5 years he "hopes to still be in the NBA" but also compares himself to Amare Stoudemire all the time. Before the season they asked him how long he plans to stay in college. Usually people just say "I'm gonna play hard and whatever happens happens" and Cliff just says "One year. Two years at most."

In his latest draft workout vid his footwork looks awful, but his jumper looks pretty good. If he can shoot the midrange consistently and learn how to play smart, he can play in the NBA. That is a big "if" though. The game moves so fast for him and he doesn't make smart decisions on the court. He's definitely a very high risk, high reward prospect, so somebody will take a chance on him in the second round.

 

[stitches]

I'm starting to think the gem pick in the 2nd tier of players might be Turner---a 7-footer who can hit 18-foot jumpers, finish inside with his length and maintain our defensive intensity. Those jumpers are always going to be there for him. His mobility doesn't even have to be all that good. He has great physical tools.

Welcome to Turner bandwagon! I really hope he's there at 12...

 

[Coach Ellis]

It seems to be a case of him dominating children in high school since he was a physical beast. Dude looks like he's 30 years old and he's 19. I remember watching his highlights when he was the #2 prospect in the class and thinking that he didn't look that good. Also, if you guys think Portis sounds dumb, go listen to Cliff Alexander's interviews. He blames Coach Self for not playing him, he says that in the NBA you can expect to see "high school Cliff Alexander" type domination (if he couldn't dominate college players, how the hell is he going to dominate NBA players?). He also said in 5 years he "hopes to still be in the NBA" but also compares himself to Amare Stoudemire all the time. Before the season they asked him how long he plans to stay in college. Usually people just say "I'm gonna play hard and whatever happens happens" and Cliff just says "One year. Two years at most."

In his latest draft workout vid his footwork looks awful, but his jumper looks pretty good. If he can shoot the midrange consistently and learn how to play smart, he can play in the NBA. That is a big "if" though. The game moves so fast for him and he doesn't make smart decisions on the court. He's definitely a very high risk, high reward prospect, so somebody will take a chance on him in the second round.

Thanks for the info. I'd rep if I could, but I've gotta go spread it around some before I do.

 

[fishonjazz]

And overlooking better parts of his offense(spot up shooting - 43% this year, 42% last year - ~1.25ppp) in favor of what is good point of his game(drives and finishes around the rim - 49% this year, 56% last year - 1.03 ppp*) is one of the problems with his game - shot selection, urge to put the ball on the floor before he does something with it - be it shooting it(usually does the one dribble pullup long 2 with foot on the 3p line), or make a drive for a contested layup.

*I was actually generous here - those are all types of finishes around the rim, including transitions, uncontested dunks on cuts, etc. In fact he shot 37.5% on drives this year and 47.5% last year, which would only come to show you how inefficient his drive game is. We just remember the flashy ones and forget all the ones that end up with a miss.

Exactly. There are lots of issues and weaknesses in Burks game. Getting past his initial defender is one of the things most consider to be his strength

 

[Coach Ellis]

Welcome to Turner bandwagon! I really hope he's there at 12...

I've come around on him as well. Johnson or Turner for the Jazz this year is a WAY better result than we deserve considering the makeup of this young and ascending roster. If either of those two max out their potential. . . they'll be amazing. *****Fingers crossed*****

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Reading this post again it almost seems like you are saying that Burks inability to get to the hoop/paint is what's holding him back. That sounds pretty dumb

Burks has plenty of weaknesses..... Getting by his man is not one of them.
Burks drive game as his main strength.

I thought everyone knew that

I've never thought he was that great at getting by his man. He usually needs the ball swung to him off a misdirection so the defense is scrambling back, then he makes a move to get past, or he relies on a pick in which he misdirects (that became super predictable after a while) and goes the opposite direction. As far as going 1-on-1 and getting bye, he isn't elite IMO, it's why he settles for too many bad/off-balance long pull-ups.

 

[fishonjazz]

*I was actually generous here - those are all types of finishes around the rim, including transitions, uncontested dunks on cuts, etc.

Would it be true that most players stats get worse when you don't include these type of "easy baskets?"

 

[fishonjazz]

I've never thought he was that great at getting by his man. He usually needs the ball swung to him off a misdirection so the defense is scrambling back, then he makes a move to get past, or he relies on a pick in which he misdirects (that became super predictable after a while) and goes the opposite direction. As far as going 1-on-1 and getting bye, he isn't elite IMO, it's why he settles for too many bad/off-balance long pull-ups.

We disagree.

 

[zyzz]

Welcome to Turner bandwagon! I really hope he's there at 12...

Turner is my favorite big too. In order I like...

1. Turner - I think his shooting touch and defense are for real. Highest upside
2. Looney - Rebounding will translate, versatile playmaker, very skilled ballhandler, I think he can shoot well eventually
3a. Kaminsky - Don't think he's as high risk as everyone says. At worst, he's a better Kelly Olynyk. Has an iso game, can shoot and pass as well.
3b. Lyles - Another versatile playmaker
5. Portis - Maybe the second highest floor behind Kaminsky. Afraid he'll turn into a spot up shooter who can't shoot 3s. Not sure if he can have an iso game or make plays. If he had a normal sized neck, he'd be 6'8.5". Good motor and attitude and plays hard though.

 

[stitches]

I've come around on him as well. Johnson or Turner for the Jazz this year is a WAY better result than we deserve considering the makeup of this young and ascending roster. If either of those two max out their potential. . . they'll be amazing. *****Fingers crossed*****

Right now I think I'm hoping for the highest upside guys to be there, too - Turner, Johnson and Oubre(maybe even Looney if his health issues aren't serious). I really want our FO to have a choice between some exceptional physical specimen(Turner - length, Oubre - length, Johnson - strength, Looney - lenght). Booker and Hunter are interesting as well, Portis is a beast and an unstoppable machine when it comes to motor. Kaminsky has really nice offensive skill... I'd be shocked if I was disappointed with our draft. I think I would be at least OK with most of those players...

edit: forgot RHJ... another physical specimen worth considering. If he ever learns how to shoot, he has the best chance to turn onto a Kawhi type.

 

[zyzz]

Alpha Kaba workout and interview

https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Alpha-Kaba-Workout-Video-and-Interview-5052/

 

[BENTLEY]

What a turnaround. I thought I was all alone on the Turner bandwagon for a bit there. There's seems to be a tide change regarding him. High upside.

Zyzz - your rankings are identical to mine. Although Johnson's in there somewhere too.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'd get into the late 1st round to draft Kaba.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Just watched RJ Hunter highlights for the first time and damn! He reminds me of Curry, even his J reminds me of Curry. I think he's better then Booker now. To me Booker is not much of a playmaker and is more of a spot up shooter. RJ seems more able to create more. Is he as good a shooter as the highlights suggest? Is he in play for the 12th pick? He's the one wing I feel I can justify taking if he has that Curry/Korver type elite distance shooting.

I worry about his level of competition, and if he has the athleticism to do this stuff in the NBA, but holy ****! R. J. Hunter is a stone cold killer with that shot. I wouldn't take him over the top 5 guys that I'm hoping for (Winslow, Hezonja, Johnson, Turner and Porzingis), but I'd consider him if all of those guys are gone. If the Jazz go big with their first pick, I sure hope that he gets consideration for a trade up with the 2nd round picks and cash. I could see that being a consideration if he falls a bit. Of course, he could move up with individual workouts and an emphasis on 3 point shooting by NBA teams. Don't know if I love him at 12, but later on I'd take him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I worry about his level of competition, and if he has the athleticism to do this stuff in the NBA, but holy ****! R. J. Hunter is a stone cold killer with that shot. I wouldn't take him over the top 5 guys that I'm hoping for (Winslow, Hezonja, Johnson, Turner and Porzingis), but I'd consider him if all of those guys are gone. If the Jazz go big with their first pick, I sure hope that he gets consideration for a trade up with the 2nd round picks and cash. I could see that being a consideration if he falls a bit. Of course, he could move up with individual workouts and an emphasis on 3 point shooting by NBA teams. Don't know if I love him at 12, but later on I'd take him.

You still have to consider the fact that Hunter, for as good as his shot looks, only shot 40% from the field in a mid-major league. Kind of concerning.