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Burks or Hood?

fishonjazz said:
You should look up burks shots per minute played vs his teammates.
You may be surprised that he is less of a ball hog than others on the jazz

Guess what
Trey burke took more shots per 36 minutes than any of the core players
Hayward was second
Favors was third
Kanter was 4th
Alec Burks took the 5th most shot attempts per 36 minutes.

What a ball hog right?


Btw Rodney hood took more shots per 36 minutes than Burks too
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Taking the most shots per 36 minutes is not the definition of being a ballhog. Your flawed logic can be proven wrong even using the statistics you gave in this post. For example, any reasonable person would say that Kanter was more of a ballhog than Hayward, yet according to you Hayward is more of a ballhog.

Moreover, at least half of the shots Burks takes makes me roll my eyes in disgust. And this is even before I know if it's going in or not. Plus, the team dynamics are way better when Hood is on the court. Hence, unless Hood can no longer play like the way he did towards the end of the season, the easy choice is Hood.
 
magic said:
Taking the most shots per 36 minutes is not the definition of being a ballhog. Your flawed logic can be proven wrong even using the statistics you gave in this post. For example, any reasonable person would say that Kanter was more of a ballhog than Hayward, yet according to you Hayward is more of a ballhog.

Moreover, at least half of the shots Burks takes makes me roll my eyes in disgust. And this is even before I know if it's going in or not. Plus, the team dynamics are way better when Hood is on the court. Hence, unless Hood can no longer play like the way he did towards the end of the season, the easy choice is Hood.
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Burks is the vet and Hood still needs more time to prove himself. I say we start the season with Burks in the starting lineup and see how it shakes out.
 
magic said:
Taking the most shots per 36 minutes is not the definition of being a ballhog.
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Fine then give me the definition of a ball hog and some statistics to back up your definition.

I would that a ball hog would be someone who shoots the ball allot while he is in the game and does not pass the ball very much.

The stats prove that Burks doesn't shoot the ball as much as his teammates. In fact, of the core players he actually shoots it the least.

I don't know if they track how many passes a player makes. I wonder where Burks would rank.
 
fishonjazz said:
Fine then give me the definition of a ball hog and some statistics to back up your definition.

I would that a ball hog would be someone who shoots the ball allot while he is in the game and does not pass the ball very much.

The stats prove that Burks doesn't shoot the ball as much as his teammates. In fact, of the core players he actually shoots it the least.

I don't know if they track how many passes a player makes. I wonder where Burks would rank.
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I would define a ballhog based on what the person does when he has the ball in his hands.
Is he is dribbling a lot without creating opportunity?
Does a large percentage of his possessions end up with him taking a shot?
Does the person take a lot of bad shots?

The data is starting to catch up where you can track some of this stuff, but obviously some of it requires judgment, such as defining a bad shot.
Burks does a lot of the above.
And the difference in the number of bad shots he takes vs. the # of bad shots Hood takes is like night and day.
 
magic said:
I would define a ballhog based on what the person does when he has the ball in his hands.
Is he is dribbling a lot without creating opportunity?
Does a large percentage of his possessions end up with him taking a shot?
Does the person take a lot of bad shots?

The data is starting to catch up where you can track some of this stuff, but obviously some of it requires judgment, such as defining a bad shot.
Burks does a lot of the above.
And the difference in the number of bad shots he takes vs. the # of bad shots Hood takes is like night and day.
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So basically...... You just think Burks is a ball hog without any statistical evidence.
That's what I figured.
I'm glad that most fans don't feel the same way
 
fishonjazz said:
So basically...... You just think Burks is a ball hog without any statistical evidence.
That's what I figured.
I'm glad that most fans don't feel the same way
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fishonjazz said:
So basically...... You just think Burks is a ball hog without any statistical evidence.
That's what I figured.
I'm glad that most fans don't feel the same way
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Are you illiterate? I said you CAN track SOME of the stuff, and that some of it is judgmental.

Here are the links with statistical evidence proving my point:
Possession: https://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*uta&sort=PTS_TCH&dir=1
Drives: https://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/drives/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*uta

The first link shows that Hayward, Hood, Kanter, and Favors all scored more points per touch than Alec Burks.
The second link shows that Burks likes to drive a lot. And even though Hood drives about half as much as Burks 2.8 drives pg vs 5.5 pg, he scores nearly as many ppg on drives as Burks (5.1 vs 5.8).
Moreover, Hood has an over 10% better FG% on drives than Burks (47.7% vs 37.1%), which essentially proves my third point I made that Burks has a terrible shot selection.

I hope Snyder isn't like "most fans" and plays the better player more, which statistically speaking at the moment is Rodney Hood.
 
magic said:
Are you illiterate? I said you CAN track SOME of the stuff, and that some of it is judgmental.

Here are the links with statistical evidence proving my point:
Possession: https://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*uta&sort=PTS_TCH&dir=1
Drives: https://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/drives/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*uta

The first link shows that Hayward, Hood, Kanter, and Favors all scored more points per touch than Alec Burks.
The second link shows that Burks likes to drive a lot. And even though Hood drives about half as much as Burks 2.8 drives pg vs 5.5 pg, he scores nearly as many ppg on drives as Burks (5.1 vs 5.8).
Moreover, Hood has an over 10% better FG% on drives than Burks (47.7% vs 37.1%), which essentially proves my third point I made that Burks has a terrible shot selection.

I hope Snyder isn't like "most fans" and plays the better player more, which statistically speaking at the moment is Rodney Hood.
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Did you really use the data from last year on Burks? You know he was injured right?
 
Catchall said:
Yeah, play Burks/Hood/Hayward/Favors/Gobert, share the ball and see what happens.
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Yep, you play your best players and try to make it work. Golden state crushing teams with 6'7" Draymond Green at center is a good case of this.
The talent gap from Burks/Hood to Burke/Cotton/Neto is huge.
 
magic said:
Are you illiterate? I said you CAN track SOME of the stuff, and that some of it is judgmental.

Here are the links with statistical evidence proving my point:
Possession: https://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*uta&sort=PTS_TCH&dir=1
Drives: https://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/drives/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*uta

The first link shows that Hayward, Hood, Kanter, and Favors all scored more points per touch than Alec Burks.
The second link shows that Burks likes to drive a lot. And even though Hood drives about half as much as Burks 2.8 drives pg vs 5.5 pg, he scores nearly as many ppg on drives as Burks (5.1 vs 5.8).
Moreover, Hood has an over 10% better FG% on drives than Burks (47.7% vs 37.1%), which essentially proves my third point I made that Burks has a terrible shot selection.

I hope Snyder isn't like "most fans" and plays the better player more, which statistically speaking at the moment is Rodney Hood.
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Bad shot selection does not mean ball hog silly goose
 
fishonjazz said:
Bad shot selection does not mean ball hog silly goose
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It may not "mean" it. But it does tend to point at it. Guys who don't pass tend to take more bad shots, than guys who create plays and pass instead of taking a bad shot. I lean toward Burks is a bit of a ball hog. Last year he was definitely a little better, hopefully he continues to improve his passing and shot selection.
 
gregbroncs said:
It may not "mean" it. But it does tend to point at it. Guys who don't pass tend to take more bad shots, than guys who create plays and pass instead of taking a bad shot. I lean toward Burks is a bit of a ball hog. Last year he was definitely a little better, hopefully he continues to improve his passing and shot selection.
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I think to be a ball hog you have to shoot allot.
For me that is the number one factor (there are other factors too)

Burks shoots less than trey, hayward, favors, kanter, and hood. (There might even be more players that he shoots less than.... Those were the only ones on the team that I checked...... so he actually shoot the least of anyone I checked on)

I just can't fathom how that would make him a ball hog even if he takes difficult shots when he does shoot it.
And remember, him being a ball handling wing means he has the ball in his hands often, yet he is still last place in fg attempts of the guys I mentioned
 
fishonjazz said:
I think to be a ball hog you have to shoot allot.
For me that is the number one factor (there are other factors too)

Burks shoots less than trey, hayward, favors, kanter, and hood. (There might even be more players that he shoots less than.... Those were the only ones on the team that I checked...... so he actually shoot the least of anyone I checked on)

I just can't fathom how that would make him a ball hog even if he takes difficult shots when he does shoot it.
And remember, him being a ball handling wing means he has the ball in his hands often, yet he is still last place in fg attempts of the guys I mentioned
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greaaatt, now we are back at square one where you think Hayward is the Jazz's biggest ball hog. Also, Burks had 3.6 more FGA per game than Hood did, so I have no idea where you're getting your data from.

As I mentioned in my initial reply to you, shooting a lot does not equate to being a ball hog. Even using bad shot selection as the only variable is a closer proxy for being a ball hog than number of shots taken. Although I said other things count too, which is something you failed to comprehend. So I'm not going to bother elaborating anymore since I'll just be wasting my time.

But as a final note, I can't fathom how someone thinks the total number of shots taken is what actually constitutes a ball hog. If there was a player who only had 2 possessions every game, but took a shot every time he had possession, that would make him a ball hog. But according to you, he wouldn't be a ball hog since he only took two shots per game. Ridiculous logic.
 
magic said:
greaaatt, now we are back at square one where you think Hayward is the Jazz's biggest ball hog. Also, Burks had 3.6 more FGA per game than Hood did, so I have no idea where you're getting your data from.

As I mentioned in my initial reply to you, shooting a lot does not equate to being a ball hog. Even using bad shot selection as the only variable is a closer proxy for being a ball hog than number of shots taken. Although I said other things count too, which is something you failed to comprehend. So I'm not going to bother elaborating anymore since I'll just be wasting my time.

But as a final note, I can't fathom how someone thinks the total number of shots taken is what actually constitutes a ball hog. If there was a player who only had 2 possessions every game, but took a shot every time he had possession, that would make him a ball hog. But according to you, he wouldn't be a ball hog since he only took two shots per game. Ridiculous logic.
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According to you if you have a player touch the ball 100 times in the game and only takes two shots but they are long contested twos early in the shotclock then they are a ball hog
 
magic said:
greaaatt, now we are back at square one where you think Hayward is the Jazz's biggest ball hog.
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actually I don't think the jazz have a ball hog on their team. That is where your and I disagree the most.
magic said:
Also, Burks had 3.6 more FGA per game than Hood did, so I have no idea where you're getting your data from.
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Lol
You can't look at attempts per game when one player averages allot more minutes than the other. That would be silly.
You have to look at attempts per minute played obviously
 
Jazz4ever said:
Yep, you play your best players and try to make it work. Golden state crushing teams with 6'7" Draymond Green at center is a good case of this.
The talent gap from Burks/Hood to Burke/Cotton/Neto is huge.
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Which only works because Draymond Green is one of a kind, and can guard like 90% of players that he switches onto. He is also incredibly unselfish.


Can Alec Burks defend even the mediocre PGs of the league? THAT is the issue at hand here. Does he ever routinely pass up a good shot for a great shot?
 
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