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NFL 2015 Season Discussion Thread

King Cy said:
Peyton Manning better IMO, but Brady has always been on more talented teams with better coaching.
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Belichick is better than any coach Peyton has had, but it was Brady that opened his playbook and solved his (or any coach's) biggest problems. And, it's ridiculous to claim that Brady has always had more talented teams. That's wrong. On average, Peyton has been surrounded by better offensive options. And, he was typically with them for longer periods of time (and thus had better familiarity with them). Brady has led several re-vamped offenses.
 
ONE LOVE said:
OK, so is Brady like the best QB that has ever lived???
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Probably
NAOS said:
Belichick is better than any coach Peyton has had, but it was Brady that opened his playbook and solved his (or any coach's) biggest problems. And, it's ridiculous to claim that Brady has always had more talented teams. That's wrong. On average, Peyton has been surrounded by better offensive options. And, he was typically with them for longer periods of time (and thus had better familiarity with them). Brady has led several re-vamped offenses.
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This.
Brady had the better coaching, manning had the better weapons
 
Peyton played college football in the SEC, so that's probably why Cy is flailing at the question.
 
Well I meant talent for the whole team (like defense) not just skill positions.

Also, I think Brady has had better skill positions players for a lot of the years (not all) since Welker/Moss joined and Harrison retired (both happened around teh same time I think).
 
Moss was there for a couple of years.... after he burned almost every bridge and couldn't stick anywhere

Welker was cut by the Dolphins....

Brady saved/made their careers. Not vice versa. Those were players widely seen to be on the downside.

Defense is an entirely different conversation.
 
NAOS said:
Moss was there for a couple of years.... after he burned almost every bridge and couldn't stick anywhere

Welker was cut by the Dolphins....

Brady saved/made their careers. Not vice versa. Those were players widely seen to be on the downside.

Defense is an entirely different conversation.
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That's not a fair argument. Just because a team used him wrong doesn't mean he wasnt good. And Moss burning bridges doesnt have anything to do with how good of a WR he was.

The players who are considered Manning's top 3 receivers are what, Harrison/Wayne/Clark? They all only played with Manning, so who knows if they would have been cut/average anywhere else.
 
King Cy said:
The players who are considered Manning's top 3 receivers are what, Harrison/Wayne/Clark?
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I would throw demarius Thomas and emmanual sanders in that list. And edgerin james.

You're right about the Defenses though
 
Stoked said:
The Bengals will be the next undefeated team to lose this week. Falcons, Packers, Pats and Broncos all win this week.
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...they ALL won, and with the Panthers bye week, there are still 6 undefeated teams! Falcons ran the ball very well....but that's about it! They had no business winning this game, but they did! With there pathetically weak schedule, I can see them going 13-3 or even better....and the Super Bowl will be going through Atlanta this year in the NFC!
 
King Cy said:
That's not a fair argument. Just because a team used him wrong doesn't mean he wasnt good. And Moss burning bridges doesnt have anything to do with how good of a WR he was.

The players who are considered Manning's top 3 receivers are what, Harrison/Wayne/Clark? They all only played with Manning, so who knows if they would have been cut/average anywhere else.
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The question of fairness is a good one. Maybe it isn't fair. But it also seems unfair to allege that Brady wasn't perhaps THEEE principle factor in making those guys into productive receivers. Belichick wasn't throwing the passes. These were players who had been unsuccessful really integrating themselves into successful programs. I'm not saying they didn't have a lot of talent. But Brady has shown that they probably needed him a helluva lot more than he needed them. Evidence: his cast of characters has had a lot of turnover, and yet they're almost always good and getting better together as the seasons progress. That's the goal of the program. He can make guys like Gaffney look totally legit. Brady is the engine. At this point, the coaches are fine-tuners.
 
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Peyton is definitely top 5. For sure.

I've been a Patriots fan since before Brady, so I've watched his entire career. I'm wicked bias for that reason. But I'll stand up anyway and say he's better than Peyton. I'm super confident I can put together a good argument for why. That's the gist.
 
Brady is better than Peyton.

Peyton is a bit of a choker in big games. That's a problem. I like Peyton. I'm not hating on him. He's done a lot of great things. But tbh, I'd take Eli over Peyton in a big game. So Peyton isn't even a better big gamer in his own family.

As far as Brady being the best ever. He's close. He might even be. But Joe Montana has a good argument for that as well.

I'm definitely taking Brady over Manning though. It's not even a hard decision.
 
Hack said:
Brady is better than Peyton.

Peyton is a bit of a choker in big games. That's a problem. I like Peyton. I'm not hating on him. He's done a lot of great things. But tbh, I'd take Eli over Peyton in a big game. So Peyton isn't even a better big gamer in his own family.

As far as Brady being the best ever. He's close. He might even be. But Joe Montana has a good argument for that as well.

I'm definitely taking Brady over Manning though. It's not even a hard decision.
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Yeah I was thinking about Joe Montana as well but does the fact that he had Jerry Rice on the team diminish his 'greatness' somewhat? Kinda like Pippen being underrated because he played with Jordan?
 
I say that Joe Montana was the best quarterback of the pre-free-agency era.

And that Brady is the best of the free-agency era.
 
Manning is the best regular season QB ever. Top 5 all time.

Both Montana and Brady are above him in that top 5.

For the reason already stated. Post season/big games folding.
 
Stoked said:
Manning is the best regular season QB ever. Top 5 all time.

Both Montana and Brady are above him in that top 5.

For the reason already stated. Post season/big games folding.
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Tom Brady has a better regular season win-percentage than Manning. And, he has a better touchdown-to-interception ratio. Manning has some better stats, but he also led offenses that were more pass-heavy than most of Brady's offenses, which always cultivated a bit more balance. As of now, Manning has about 2000 more career passing attempts than Brady... a fact that should be acknowledged when you look at the disparity of total yards and touchdowns. If Brady keeps going like this, then he'll get 2000 more high-quality attempts.
 
Manning was a better quarterback when he came into the league than Brady was when he came into the league. But Brady closed that gap in a ****ing hurry. Then, he passed him.
 
NAOS said:
He can make guys like Gaffney look totally legit.
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Remember Deon branch? Dude looked like a pro bowler with brady throwing him passes.

Plus Brady has been to all teh super bowels and pwned manning head to head
 
NAOS said:
Peyton is definitely top 5. For sure.

I've been a Patriots fan since before Brady, so I've watched his entire career. I'm wicked bias for that reason. But I'll stand up anyway and say he's better than Peyton. I'm super confident I can put together a good argument for why. That's the gist.
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I'm not bias at all..... In fact I like Peyton better.
But if you look at what they have done with their careers then I can't see how Brady doesn't come out on top
 
NAOS said:
I say that Joe Montana was the best quarterback of the pre-free-agency era.

And that Brady is the best of the free-agency era.
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Good post. I take brady over Montana anyway
 
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