Jeopardy Question

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I didn't say you said anything. I asked you what your plan would be.

How would you use Burks? How is he getting these three point attempts you want for him? Is he playing like klay does? Beal?

I would use Burks in the same way we are using him, just hey, you know, take some of those open 3 point looks you get from time to time. Maybe I would design a play for Burks (one that I would be certain that would result in an open 3 for him) and tell him "You are shooting this 3 or I'm pulling you. I don't care if you make it or miss it".

 

[MDAV28]

Good find. Does that account for free throws as well?

Just FGA, I'm not sure how to incorporate FT's into the equation because I don't know where I could find a statistic about how exactly a FT was earned (on a 2-point attempt, 3-point attempt, technical, etc.).

 

[fishonjazz]

Just FGA, I'm not sure how to incorporate FT's into the equation because I don't know where I could find a statistic about how exactly a FT was earned (on a 2-point attempt, 3-point attempt, technical, etc.).

We can logically assume though that Burks gets to the line more on 2 point attempts than 3 point attempts though right?
So that would definitely effect the numbers somewhat in the favor of point per 2 point attempt. We just don't know how much

 

[MDAV28]

We can logically assume though that Burks gets to the line more on 2 point attempts than 3 point attempts though right?
So that would definitely effect the numbers somewhat in the favor of point per 2 point attempt. We just don't know how much

Of course but even if you assume all the FT's were a result of a 2-point attempt (which obviously isn't fair, especially considering and-ones) the points per 2-point attempt goes to .99 for last season. Still lower than point per 3-point attempt at 1.14

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We can logically assume though that Burks gets to the line more on 2 point attempts than 3 point attempts though right?
So that would definitely effect the numbers somewhat in the favor of point per 2 point attempt. We just don't know how much

No it wouldn't because you don't take a 2 point attempt when you go to the FT line unless you get an "And-1" in which case the scored point is included in the point per attempt calculation.

You could also assume that shooting more 3 point attempts could increase his amount of FTA because it would cause teams to close out more aggressively. Basically the things you are arguing isnt necessarily true. We aren't asking Burks to take 8 3pt attempts a game.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Last year Gordon Hayward took more 3 pointers in 1 season than his entire career and got to the FT line more. The two stats arent mutually exclusive.

 

[♪alt13]

No it wouldn't because you don't take a 2 point attempt when you go to the FT line unless you get an "And-1" in which case the scored point is included in the point per attempt calculation.

You could also assume that shooting more 3 point attempts could increase his amount of FTA because it would cause teams to close out more aggressively. Basically the things you are arguing isnt necessarily true. We aren't asking Burks to take 8 3pt attempts a game.

4-5 sounds right and he should take just as many 2's. The thing is he can't score more by driving more but he can score 20 a night if he shoots more 3's. Any night where Burke outscores Burks we are probably going to lose. Hayward, Burks, and Hood are going to have to carry the offensive load.

 

[Siro]

I didn't read any responses, but Burks should take more threes. There's really no question about it. It is a big part of the game that he's quite capable of. Not only would it help the team with spacing, but it would also help his own offensive game by drawing defenders, which expands his options and makes driving and finding the lane easier.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I didn't read any responses, but Burks should take more threes. There's really no question about it. It is a big part of the game that he's quite capable of. Not only would it help the team with spacing, but it would also help his own offensive game by drawing defenders, which expands his options and makes driving and finding the lane easier.

All the responses are "Well Burks is good at layups so why shoot 3's?" then I tell them (basically) what you said and it's "Well he is good at layups so why shoot 3's?"

 

[Siro]

All the responses are "Well Burks is good at layups so why shoot 3's?" then I tell them (basically) what you said and it's "Well he is good at layups so why shoot 3's?"

Yeah WTF? Spacing is pretty terrible as is. Last thing team needs is a wing who only drives.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

This thread= spending 90% of the time focusing on 10% of the problem.

 

[fishonjazz]

FWIW burks three point attempts per year have went up each season with last season being the most per game he has ever attempted.

Also, for a comparison, demar derozan takes 1.4 three point attempts per game per 36 minutes for his career. Tony parker is at 1.5 Dwayne wade is at 1.7 Alec burks is at 2.4 per game. Those guys have had pretty good careers and their teams have had pretty good seasons despite their lack of three point attempts. However the jazz playing favors and gobert at the same time might make it more important for burks to shoot more threes than those guys..... good thing for the jazz that he does.

 

[fishonjazz]

In the past i remember the spurs using a starting line up featuring Duncan (no floor spreading), Splitter (no floor spreading), and parker. (rarely shoots threes)
Then they have danny green and leonard who both shoot a good amount of threes. Maybe burks shooting 2-3 per game is enough if hayward and trey shoot close to as many as green and leonard (since burks already shoots about twice as many as parker, hayward and trey would not have to shoot as many as green and leonard even)

The heat won a title with a starting lineup of Jason williams, d-wade, antoine walker, haslem, and shaq. Only two volume three point shooters.

Maybe the lack of three point shooting for the jazz is more of a team problem than a single player problem. Maybe burks, hayward, and trey all need to take more threes since it seems that you can win titles with only 2 volume 3 point shooters in the starting lineup. We dont really have any volume three point shooters in our starting lineup (is hayward or trey a volume 3 point shooter?) so maybe all three of them need to take more.

 

[fishonjazz]

I just looked it up and it seems that both hayward and trey take lots of three point attempts per 36 minutes.... and burks takes more 3 point attempts than tony parker and d-wade do.
So it seems like our starting lineup 3 point shooting would be right about on par with those championship teams right? Unless leonard/green and jayson williams/antoine walker attempt way more 3's than trey and hayward.

 

[Jamezz]

In the past i remember the spurs using a starting line up featuring Duncan (no floor spreading), Splitter (no floor spreading), and parker. (rarely shoots threes)
Then they have danny green and leonard who both shoot a good amount of threes. Maybe burks shooting 2-3 per game is enough if hayward and trey shoot close to as many as green and leonard (since burks already shoots about twice as many as parker, hayward and trey would not have to shoot as many as green and leonard even)

The heat won a title with a starting lineup of Jason williams, d-wade, antoine walker, haslem, and shaq. Only two volume three point shooters.

Maybe the lack of three point shooting for the jazz is more of a team problem than a single player problem. Maybe burks, hayward, and trey all need to take more threes since it seems that you can win titles with only 2 volume 3 point shooters in the starting lineup. We dont really have any volume three point shooters in our starting lineup (is hayward or trey a volume 3 point shooter?) so maybe all three of them need to take more.

Absolutely yes. Just notice how often the other teams find clean open 3 attempts compared to the Jazz. This is something that needs to be worked on, finding ways to leave a guy open more often.

 

[MDAV28]

In the past i remember the spurs using a starting line up featuring Duncan (no floor spreading), Splitter (no floor spreading), and parker. (rarely shoots threes)
Then they have danny green and leonard who both shoot a good amount of threes. Maybe burks shooting 2-3 per game is enough if hayward and trey shoot close to as many as green and leonard (since burks already shoots about twice as many as parker, hayward and trey would not have to shoot as many as green and leonard even)

The heat won a title with a starting lineup of Jason williams, d-wade, antoine walker, haslem, and shaq. Only two volume three point shooters.

Maybe the lack of three point shooting for the jazz is more of a team problem than a single player problem. Maybe burks, hayward, and trey all need to take more threes since it seems that you can win titles with only 2 volume 3 point shooters in the starting lineup. We dont really have any volume three point shooters in our starting lineup (is hayward or trey a volume 3 point shooter?) so maybe all three of them need to take more.

Yeah that's what I was trying to get at earlier. Burks isn't Parker or Wade though so I don't really see that as a fair comparison but I've always thought Derozan was a similar comp, yet the Raptors, even with Derozan not taking a lot of 3s, still are one of the heavier 3-point shooting teams I think.

Out of those 3, Burke would be considered the more "volume 3-point shooter", and he's probably the last one you would want to be of the 3 considering he has never shot over 33%..

The problem isn't just to take more 3s. That doesn't make any sense really, you could take a ton of 3s a game, nothing is really stopping you. The problem is Burks passing up those 3-point opportunities created for him. Hayward and Burke usually take the 3-point opportunities given to them, Burks for whatever reason this preseason does not.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah that's what I was trying to get at earlier. Burks isn't Parker or Wade though so I don't really see that as a fair comparison but I've always thought Derozan was a similar comp, yet the Raptors, even with Derozan not taking a lot of 3s, still are one of the heavier 3-point shooting teams I think.

Out of those 3, Burke would be considered the more "volume 3-point shooter", and he's probably the last one you would want to be of the 3 considering he has never shot over 33%..

The problem isn't just to take more 3s. That doesn't make any sense really, you could take a ton of 3s a game, nothing is really stopping you. The problem is Burks passing up those 3-point opportunities created for him. Hayward and Burke usually take the 3-point opportunities given to them, Burks for whatever reason this preseason does not.

Ya and I did some more checking. I looked at houston, memphis, and the clippers (and then got sick of looking stuff up) All three of those teams have 3 players in the starting lineup that take allot of threes. So im probably wrong and the spurs/heat teams are exceptions.
Seems that Burks does need to take more threes in order for the jazz to have a similar recipe to most good teams.

 

[NAOS]

Yeah, he is a great talent. You are ignoring the point though. You can't succeed as a team in this age of the NBA with a SG who won't take open 3 pointers, especially when you have two bigs who provide next to no floor spacing.

put Hood and Hayward next to him. Tell them to launch it.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think our biggest problem so far this pre season has been that our big 3 have not played like our big 3 needs to. Especially Gobert and favors

 

[NAOS]

not joking/trolling, just repeating myself:

Burks can be used very similar to how Jeff Teague is used. Drive and kick, or drive and score. The trick is knowing when to kick.

I've watched 80% of the Hawks games since Millsap joined them. Teague is a legit comp. Burks doesn't have the same handles, will get you a few less assists (but a more rebounds).

Sigh.