Obamacare

[Stoked]

Ok, but what's the counterfactual? Premiums have been increasing for a long time now, so are they now increasing at a faster rate, slower rate, or about the same than historical and/or recent trends?
For what it's worth, I don't see that premiums have to fall to claim ACA is a success. I'm willing to trade off increased cost for increased access, although I'd obviously prefer decreased cost. I do, however, think an important, but not sufficient, indicator of success is how it affects the long-term tream in overall health care cost.

All, or most public policies, are matters of trade-offs (Pareto Optimality be damned), there's inevitably winners and losers. I'm willing to look at what these trade-offs are and how they play out and have a rational discussion about how we assess them.

Good question. I don't know the answer. Was just trying to add some context.

Well from what I understand what insurance companies one can choose from is limited by the ACA. Why? Why not open the doors and let any insurance company compete anywhere they can? Also wouldn't more people paying premiums tend to lower premiums? Premium costs are only one measure of success. But if other signs of success are there I am willing to a decent increase in my premiums

This makes me laugh. In the sense that often times people on the right defend capitalism this way. Suddenly now it is a problem.

I do think the penalty for no insurance should be done away with completely.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Good question. I don't know the answer. Was just trying to add some context.

Well from what I understand what insurance companies one can choose from is limited by the ACA. Why? Why not open the doors and let any insurance company compete anywhere they can? Also wouldn't more people paying premiums tend to lower premiums? Premium costs are only one measure of success. But if other signs of success are there I am willing to a decent increase in my premiums

This makes me laugh. In the sense that often times people on the right defend capitalism this way. Suddenly now it is a problem.

I do think the penalty for no insurance should be done away with completely.

Fair enough. All quite reasonable.

However, I don't see how the penalty could be done away with, as the system would collapse if people don't enroll, and the tax is a necessary inducement to encourage enrollment.

 

[Stoked]

Fair enough. All quite reasonable.

However, I don't see how the penalty could be done away with, as the system would collapse if people don't enroll, and the tax is a necessary inducement to encourage enrollment.

I am not for forcing people into this.

Offer carrots, not sticks.

 

[Harambe]

Fair enough. All quite reasonable.

However, I don't see how the penalty could be done away with, as the system would collapse if people don't enroll, and the tax is a necessary inducement to encourage enrollment.

This. You have to get people on board. The more people you get on board, the less your rates are gonna hike. Enough people, particularly young people, you could see a reduction.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Well, it looks like Bernie Sanders is the only one who wants to move from ACA to single-payer health care. Hillary Clinton is going to be 8 more years of the same ****, I'm afraid.

Pls vote for Bernie, you guys. I'm telling you-- health care REALLY aint that bad.

 

[Deleted member 848]

My definition of prurient interest (and the Sup Ct's) differs from yours, but I wont get into that as it is an ancillary issue.

IMS Health v. Sorrell and it's progeny (and another Virigina case from the mid 70s iirc) protects pharma ads as commercial speech that informs consumers. There have been multiple lawsuits on this issue, and pharma wins these cases. Legislatures have tried to restrict these ads and failed after long periods of litigation. These companies will fight tooth and nail to keep these ads legal. I read that for every dollar in pharma ads $4 is made. An industry will not roll over on an issue like this and they have current case law on their side. I am not saying it is impossible, but the chances are slim. It definitely won't be "easily done". The AMA has tried, politicians have tried, and yet the ads are still protected speech.

And it's a testament to how ****ed up the pharmaceutical industry is, with this power that they wield. Dear God. Commercial speech that informs consumers-- as if 95% of the consumers have any ****ing idea how these drugs work, and whether they need them or not. America needs to join the rest of the world in stopping these ads.

 

[The Thriller]

We need less health care for the poors and more tax cuts for the rich, subsidies to oil companies, and blank checks to defense contractors.

It's the only way to make Murika acceptitional again.

 

[infection]

We need less health care for the poors

We need less healthcare for everyone.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Well, it looks like Bernie Sanders is the only one who wants to move from ACA to single-payer health care. Hillary Clinton is going to be 8 more years of the same ****, I'm afraid.

Pls vote for Bernie, you guys. I'm telling you-- health care REALLY aint that bad.

Why is this issue so important to you?

 

[babe]

Why is this issue so important to you?

Dal is a true believer. Some profs told him what to believe. We need to make the whole world better, and only a few have the true vision. They are the prophets of the Better Way, the masses should just do as they think.

I'm a missionary too. I am the prophet of the bog. Foggy Bottom should just be allowed to sink in the Potomac muck and burble a little excess gas as it goes under.

 

[Harambe]

Dal is a true believer. Some profs told him what to believe. We need to make the whole world better, and only a few have the true vision. They are the prophets of the Better Way, the masses should just do as they think.

You do realize the same could be said about you, right? You're more likely to actually believe this about another person if you've experienced it yourself personally.

So, perhaps this should be the next Dalpost;

Babe is a true believer. Some talking head fox news journalist told him what to believe. We need to make only a few lives better, and only the rich support the true vision. They are the prophets of the Better Way, the masses should just do as they think.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Why is this issue so important to you?

as a human, and one who has several friends and relatives in the states, I care about American politics. It also has very direct impacts on Canadian politics.

 

[babe]

You do realize the same could be said about you, right? You're more likely to actually believe this about another person if you've experienced it yourself personally.

So, perhaps this should be the next Dalpost;

Except I don't watch Fox much. And, actually, I exhort the masses to think for themselves.

I checked in my "true believer" name tag when I had a good friend working for KSL television, on the news team, who told me how decisions were made about what should be broadcast. KSL is the top news retailer for Salt Lake. I was even friends with the son of the general manager, and my brother in law worked for them in the business side. My neighbor was one of their radio talk show hosts, too. And did I mention KSL is owned by the Mormon Church?

I don't much for either a managed press that has priestly delusions for feeding the masses with appropriate materials, or for being part of that managed public world view. Look at your sources with a questioning, critical eye if you want to rise in the ranks of political advocacy, or at least if you want to get a whiff of truth now and then.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Dal is a true believer. Some profs told him what to believe. We need to make the whole world better, and only a few have the true vision. They are the prophets of the Better Way, the masses should just do as they think.

I'm a missionary too. I am the prophet of the bog. Foggy Bottom should just be allowed to sink in the Potomac muck and burble a little excess gas as it goes under.

a garbage post from a growingly-lazy poster. Sorry babe.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

as a human, and one who has several friends and relatives in the states, I care about American politics. It also has very direct impacts on Canadian politics.

It is clear that American's don't want the sort of system you are dreaming for us to have. I don't understand why it would be so important to a non-citizen that we get something we don't want.

As for your second point, our health care decisions impact Canadian politics? How would Canada be impacted if the US did not go single payer? Probably not at all. If the US did change the impacts on Canada would probably mostly be negative. I'll bet the largest impact would be the drug companies increasing their charges to everyone in an effort to make up for lost revenue. R&D budgets would be among the first casualties.

 

[Revolution 9]

Is there anybody out there who still thinks this is a good thing?

I'm just asking because my insurance rates keep on going up, and I'm the very definition of low-middle class. I thought this **** was supposed to help me?! I'd be better off if I were a single parent, no job, and "disabled".







/insurance rant over

Mine has stated exactly the same over the past two years. Maybe you need a new insurance provider.

 

[The Thriller]

Mine has stated exactly the same over the past two years. Maybe you need a new insurance provider.

What?

So you're suggesting that those who lost loudly advocate for the miracles wrought by the free market actually put their money where their mouth is and *gasp* shop around?!

That's not how it works! I'm merely supposed to complain and bash the black president! That'll make everything better since everything is his fault! I'm not supposed to do anything...

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Mine has stated exactly the same over the past two years. Maybe you need a new insurance provider.

If your health care insurance costs really have stayed level at the same coverage over the last two years you are absolutely bucking the national trends, and even a tiny bit of research would prove that to you. I don't believe your statement at all... except wait a minute. You're in Germany, aren't you? How would your experiences with health care over the last two years be relevant to a discussion on whether Obamacare is working for Americans?

What?

So you're suggesting that those who lost loudly advocate for the miracles wrought by the free market actually put their money where their mouth is and *gasp* shop around?!

That's not how it works! I'm merely supposed to complain and bash the black president! That'll make everything better since everything is his fault! I'm not supposed to do anything...

Maybe you ought to pull up a graph of health insurance cost trends before making this proclamation that the reason for the rising costs is that people decided to quit shopping around and blame the amount of melanin in the president's skin instead.

My health care costs have gone up a lot. I'm self employed so I have to shop around for insurance every year. I do not care what color the president's skin is.

 

[The Thriller]

If your health care insurance costs really have stayed level at the same coverage over the last two years you are absolutely bucking the national trends, and even a tiny bit of research would prove that to you. I don't believe your statement at all... except wait a minute. You're in Germany, aren't you? How would your experiences with health care over the last two years be relevant to a discussion on whether Obamacare is working for Americans?

Maybe you ought to pull up a graph of health insurance cost trends before making this proclamation that the reason for the rising costs is that people decided to quit shopping around and blame the amount of melanin in the president's skin instead.

My health care costs have gone up a lot. I'm self employed so I have to shop around for insurance every year. I do not care what color the president's skin is.

Health insurance premiums for most Americans have risen at their slowest rates in 2 decades since Obamacare was enacted. So if you hate skyrocketing premiums then you must love Obamacare.

If you're self employed and can't find affordable insurance then stop blaming others. Get off your ***, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, and figure things out. Go back to school to make yourself marketable. Get s job that offers health insurance. Start up your own insurance company. That's the beauty of this free market system you and your ilk cheer on.

But stop bitching. Get to work

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Health insurance premiums for most Americans have risen at their slowest rates in 2 decades since Obamacare was enacted. So if you hate skyrocketing premiums then you must love Obamacare.

If you're self employed and can't find affordable insurance then stop blaming others. Get off your ***, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, and figure things out. Go back to school to make yourself marketable. Get s job that offers health insurance. Start up your own insurance company. That's the beauty of this free market system you and your ilk cheer on.

But stop bitching. Get to work

What in the hell are you talking about? I never said that I don't have money. I said that I don't like spending so much on healthcare. Our system is broken and Obama has made it worse. I doubt that you're right that the rate of increase has decreased. It definitely hasn't for me. It has gotten more expensive every year since Obamacare, and the increase is not at all small.