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It is time consider trade Hayward

King Cy said:
How was the pooch screwed by signing Hayward? Are we over the cap and in the LT? Did signing Hayward prevent us from signing someone else? You make no sense.
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Hayward now has a 1 year early opt out and a trade kicker clause(I've read both 15 or 25 %). Makes trading harder.....

So now the Jazz have to deal with Hayward 1 year earlier than they could have AND made trading him much harder.

So I guess that's good in your book... Care to play poker :)
 
ijazz said:
Hayward now has a 1 year early opt out and a trade kicker clause(I've read both 15 or 25 %). Makes trading harder.....

So now the Jazz have to deal with Hayward 1 year earlier than they could have AND made trading him much harder.

So I guess that's good in your book... Care to play poker :)
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GTFO dimwit. Hayward is a top 30 player in this league. Who else would you have signed had we not matched on him?

****ing dunce.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
GTFO dimwit. Hayward is a top 30 player in this league. Who else would you have signed had we not matched on him?

****ing dunce.
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That's my point, I would have given him the rumored 4/52 he wanted instead of becoming a RFA......Not the sharpest tool are ya ;)
 
ijazz said:
That's my point, I would have given him the rumored 4/52 he wanted instead of becoming a RFA......Not the sharpest tool are ya ;)
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^^^
This. Or with the projected cap bump they could have (should have) just given him a 5 year deal like a lot of teams did last year. Especially after Favors signed such a reasonable extension.
 
Really we should be looking to trade Burks more than anyone. He doesn't fit Quin's system and he is inconsistent.

I doubt DL could swallow his pride though, all off-season we heard "the biggest acquisition is that we now have a healthy Burks! That's why we didn't feel the need to actually sign good free agents!"
 
ijazz said:
That's my point, I would have given him the rumored 4/52 he wanted instead of becoming a RFA......Not the sharpest tool are ya ;)
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So we screwed the pooch by not extending him the year before, not by re-signing him. To screw the pooch would have been not extending then not signing. It was a mistake on DL's part not getting it done earlier, for sure.
 
King Cy said:
Really we should be looking to trade Burks more than anyone. He doesn't fit Quin's system and he is inconsistent.

I doubt DL could swallow his pride though, all off-season we heard "the biggest acquisition is that we now have a healthy Burks! That's why we didn't feel the need to actually sign good free agents!"
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Totally agree. Plus I do not feel he plays well with Hayward.
 
fishonjazz said:
Will that change when we sign him for 25 million per year on his next contract?
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Given that the cap is going to increase by a proportionate amount, no. And even if it did, it's not like it would otherwise prevent us from signing some mega-star. Elite #1 options aren't exactly lining up in FA to sign with Utah.

Keeping Hayward doesn't prevent us from getting an elite option, unless the argument is that we could swap him for picks and then tank for a better pick of our own. ie the 76ers way of rebuild. That would be a real nice **** you to Derrick Favors and Rudy Gobert as well. You can flush team attitude and chemistry down the toilet if you do that. Sorry Derrick, sorry Rudy, sorry everybody, but we're going to suck for several more years and just HOPE that one of these new draft picks develops into an elite player.

All that, and there's a GREAT chance none of those draft picks even turns into a better player than Hayward.
 
He is pulling off, Got a baby beautifull wife and money for life. He has no fire, right now. He should be our franchise Player. Like i said we have to be patient.
 
I use my friend Bilo who has so much gypsy power to know that we can talk about this today. This can happen and I think it can.
 
King Cy said:
Really we should be looking to trade Burks more than anyone. He doesn't fit Quin's system and he is inconsistent.

I doubt DL could swallow his pride though, all off-season we heard "the biggest acquisition is that we now have a healthy Burks! That's why we didn't feel the need to actually sign good free agents!"
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Tough to trade an injured player. Also the guy is locked in inexpensively for 3 years after this one. I don't disagree fit wise, but the talent we'd get back for Hayward vs. Burks isn't close. Also the potential that Hayward leaves was always there, but this craptastic season make it much greater imo. What we can get now vs. 6 months from now may be very different.

I don't see us moving Hayward, though it might be the most prudent thing long-term. I hate the idea of taking a step back... I hope DL has a lot of sleepless nights in between now and the deadline pondering these items.
 
I hate when the only example of "building through the draft" that is cited is Philly? What about OKC or GS or SA? All those teams built themselves up by getting high picks, drafting shrewdly in the 2nd round and making key trades. How would trading Hayward be any different than GS getting rid of Ellis?

We're not getting a franchise player via FA. Hayward has shown he's a fringe all-star, but nothing more. How many times does he "take over" a game and will the Jazz to a win? Maybe once or twice? That's not worth giving him 5:$150M to stay...that is, if he even wants to.

Trade him for a top-8 pick, get a top-10 pick by missing the playoffs. That gives two chances to draft a "go-to" guy. And it frees up even more cash to retain players and go after good veterans. IMO, Hood is showing more "clutchness" than Hayward.
 
As I recall this board was overflowing with deafening screams to not offer Hayward the max. He'll be nothing more than a third or fourth option on an average team. Remember that?

Now we are all bitching that DL did not do what we did not want him to do.

Folks, these are really tough decisions, let's not pretend that they were perfectly clear at the time just because we can see the rear view mirror what we now believe to be a more optimal decision.
 
If Boston offered us the third overall pick and the 31st overall pick for Hayward I'd be all for it. Put Hood at the three and use the Jazz pick to draft Hield at the two. Use the Boston pick on whomever DL falls in lust with. Use the 2nd rounder for Payton II.
 
Stifle Tower said:
I hate when the only example of "building through the draft" that is cited is Philly? What about OKC or GS or SA? All those teams built themselves up by getting high picks, drafting shrewdly in the 2nd round and making key trades. How would trading Hayward be any different than GS getting rid of Ellis?

We're not getting a franchise player via FA. Hayward has shown he's a fringe all-star, but nothing more. How many times does he "take over" a game and will the Jazz to a win? Maybe once or twice? That's not worth giving him 5:$150M to stay...that is, if he even wants to.

Trade him for a top-8 pick, get a top-10 pick by missing the playoffs. That gives two chances to draft a "go-to" guy. And it frees up even more cash to retain players and go after good veterans. IMO, Hood is showing more "clutchness" than Hayward.
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seriously dude, on what planet do you think getting rid of hayward would in any way be the same as GS getting rid of a ball hogging inefficient malcontent ? There is so little chance of any draft pick we'd get in return being even remotely what Hayward is that it's just a fallacy to contemplate.

As for getting the all coveted "franchise player" who will magically take over games ... that is so unlikely to happen and highly unlikely in Utah. The only hope for that is Exum, and if he's a bust the only hope is building a team of fringe all stars.
 
DownUnder said:
seriously dude, on what planet do you think getting rid of hayward would in any way be the same as GS getting rid of a ball hogging inefficient malcontent ?
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Actually there is a lot in common:

1. Both were the best players on their teams at the time.
2. Both were putting up good stats but couldn't make the all-star team

Ball Hogging?
Ellis' Career in Golden State (7 seasons): 4.4 assists/game
Hayward's Career in Utah (6 seasons): 3.4 assists/game

Inefficient?
Ellis' Career in Golden State (7 seasons): 17.0 PER
Hayward's Career in Utah (6 seasons): 16.9 PER
 
akirac73 said:
Actually there is a lot in common:

1. Both were the best players on their teams at the time.
2. Both were putting up good stats but couldn't make the all-star team

Ball Hogging?
Ellis' Career in Golden State (7 seasons): 4.4 assists/game
Hayward's Career in Utah (6 seasons): 3.4 assists/game

Inefficient?
Ellis' Career in Golden State (7 seasons): 17.0 PER
Hayward's Career in Utah (6 seasons): 16.9 PER
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did you actually watch Ellis play then ??

And who exactly is the player on the Jazz who the organization feels is pushing to take Haywards role ? And is there friction about playing time / roles on the team ?
 
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