Name a better wing rotation than Hayward Hood Burks

[RandyForRubio]

I'm starting to slowly feel similarly-- but I'll see how he looks once he jumps back into the team.


Fortunately, Burks is very very tradeable.

It's a pretty big long shot, but I would try for Winslow. Spo and Riley don't care much for rookies, and Burks would be a good fit with Wade.

 

[GVC]

Also, cake-baking meant sitting tight with our roster this year and focusing on the development of or current players for one more year, as opposed to going after big deals and players during the offseason-- as we still didn't feel comfortable understanding the ceilings of some of our players, and how good they could really be. Personally, I mentioned 2016-2017 as the year we go out, and the desire to hold off on trades or acquisitions until this year's ASB at the absolute earliest.


In doing this, we've figured out the potential of Lyles, the breaking-out of Hood, the consistency of Hayward, the emergence of Favors, and the decent play of Withey. Burke no longer has negative trade value, and Neto is slowly proving NBA level talent.

In doing this, the hypothesis is that we take an extra year to develop in order to give us a higher percentage of winning that elusive championship someday down the line.

I'm curious, who are these anti-cake-bakers?

If you're referring to people who held/hold the same opinion as me, then you've mischaracterized things at least a little (talk about disingenuity...). My point has always been that you can't waste opportunities to add talent. Good talent with good contracts can be moved if necessary. Even witrh fewer injuries, the Jazz could have found minutes for the players who demanded them with their play, even with additional talent. Further, in case you've forgotten, my opinion is and was that DL still has work to do. As such, his overwhelming support on this board was/is premature.

 

[MDAV28]

Also, cake-baking meant sitting tight with our roster this year and focusing on the development of or current players for one more year, as opposed to going after big deals and players during the offseason-- as we still didn't feel comfortable understanding the ceilings of some of our players, and how good they could really be. Personally, I mentioned 2016-2017 as the year we go out, and the desire to hold off on trades or acquisitions until this year's ASB at the absolute earliest.


In doing this, we've figured out the potential of Lyles, the breaking-out of Hood, the consistency of Hayward, the emergence of Favors, and the decent play of Withey. Burke no longer has negative trade value, and Neto is slowly proving NBA level talent.

In doing this, the hypothesis is that we take an extra year to develop in order to give us a higher percentage of winning that elusive championship someday down the line.

Well put me in the "cake-baker" group then. I have for a long time been intent on the development of the core, and even more so after the finish to last season.

I'm all for going out and adding around the core tho with player like Withey (who the Jazz hit on for sure). I think the Jazz could've pushed for a guy like Ish Smith, or could've done what Portland did trading for Mo Harkless (for a second round pick I think?) or signing Aminu to, what will be, a pocket change contract.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Pretty sure GVC is arguing something else.

Most wanted Hood starting over Burks on opening night-- but this was separate from the discussions surrounding adding the extra wings that were on the market.

 

[GVC]

No. Wrong.


Every single target mentioned with the associated hypothetical roster posted had Hood coming off the bench.

Do you consider me an anti-cake-baker? If so, you're wrong. I'd love to see you point out where I ever posted anything like that.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Ppl had Burks spending most of his minutes at PG, and Hood backing up the 2/3 with Hayward and the target starting, whether it was Green, Wes, Carroll, etc. Nearly 90-100% unanimous.

90% isn't unanimous.

And I guess I don't see the problem? It's not like Hood wouldn't have gotten minutes if that scenario played out. Competition tends to make players better. Besides, we still have a relatively small sample size of Hood playing well. Of course we're going to be optimistic about his future and say that how he's playing now is going to continue, but I wouldn't have a problem with us adding more talent this last offseason.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I'm curious, who are these anti-cake-bakers?

If you're referring to people who held/hold the same opinion as me, then you've mischaracterized things at least a little (talk about disingenuity...). My point has always been that you can't waste opportunities to add talent. Good talent with good contracts can be moved if necessary. Even witrh fewer injuries, the Jazz could have found minutes for the players who demanded them with their play, even with additional talent. Further, in case you've forgotten, my opinion is and was that DL still has work to do. As such, his overwhelming support on this board was/is premature.

I've never called you an anti cake-baker, just responding to some of the points you've made along with responding to the posters here who've criticized the Jazz cake-baking approach.


There was an entire thread along with an associated rift in opinions back in the offseason. NAOS was the loudest proponent, for one.

 

[fishonjazz]

No. There was a ton of debate about whether Alec or Hood should start. IIRC, I thought Hood was a better fit next to Gordo, with Alec and Trey providing punch off the bench.

That has nothing to do with wanting to add talent though.

He is talking about if we would have added a big name free agent wing like people wanted. He is saying that the starting wings would have been hayward and free agent acquisition.
Hood and burks both riding pine to start games.

 

[GVC]

Pretty sure GVC is arguing something else.

Most wanted Hood starting over Burks on opening night-- but this was separate from the discussions surrounding adding the extra wings that were on the market.

You and Fish have created your own little straw man. He introduced those players' names. I was only saying Burks isn't a particularly good third wing on this team. It's kind of hilarious. And you accused me of being disingenuous and lacking intellectual integrity...Jesus.

 

[fishonjazz]

I don't remember anything about Hood coming off the bench as being unanimous. Seems like people were pretty split on it. I think people also expected/hoped Burks would be a bit better as well.

See below

He is talking about if we would have added a big name free agent wing like people wanted. He is saying that the starting wings would have been hayward and free agent acquisition.
Hood and burks both riding pine to start games.

 

[Deleted member 848]

90% isn't unanimous.

And I guess I don't see the problem? It's not like Hood wouldn't have gotten minutes if that scenario played out. Competition tends to make players better. Besides, we still have a relatively small sample size of Hood playing well. Of course we're going to be optimistic about his future and say that how he's playing now is going to continue, but I wouldn't have a problem with us adding more talent this last offseason.

90% was just being generous-- I genuinely don't recall a SINGLE instance where people had a target in the offseason as coming off the bench behind Hood. Ppl can attempt to prove me wrong, and I'll accept it gladly if I am.

 

[RandyForRubio]

See below

And the problem with that scenario is...?

 

[Deleted member 848]

You and Fish have created your own little straw man. He introduced those players' names. I was only saying Burks isn't a particularly good third wing on this team. It's kind of hilarious.

We're responding less so to you, moreso to the months of smearing that the cake-baking argument dealt with whilst the team steered through historical injury problems

 

[fishonjazz]

You and Fish have created your own little straw man. He introduced those players' names. I was only saying Burks isn't a particularly good third wing on this team. It's kind of hilarious. And you accused me of being disingenuous and lacking intellectual integrity...Jesus.

Again. Fine burks isnt a good third wing on this team. Who is?

 

[RandyForRubio]

90% was just being generous-- I genuinely don't recall a SINGLE instance where people had a target in the offseason as coming off the bench behind Hood. Ppl can attempt to prove me wrong, and I'll accept it gladly if I am.

Let's be honest, why would they have Hood starting? Because of a small sample size? It's not like he still wouldn't have gotten minutes. Let's not act like this would stifle his development.

 

[Deleted member 848]

90% isn't unanimous.

And I guess I don't see the problem? It's not like Hood wouldn't have gotten minutes if that scenario played out. Competition tends to make players better. Besides, we still have a relatively small sample size of Hood playing well. Of course we're going to be optimistic about his future and say that how he's playing now is going to continue, but I wouldn't have a problem with us adding more talent this last offseason.

Competition of minutes forces trades, with players whose ceilings we might not know.

Let's not forget the countless examples of this happening. Hood is putting up better numbers than Harden was in his 2nd season.

 

[fishonjazz]

And the problem with that scenario is...?

Hood should be a starter. me thinks he is proving that

 

[Deleted member 848]

Let's be honest, why would they have Hood starting? Because of a small sample size? It's not like he still wouldn't have gotten minutes. Let's not act like this would stifle his development.

It would. We can agree to disagree.

 

[GVC]

We're responding less so to you, moreso to the months of smearing that the cake-baking argument dealt with whilst the team steered through historical injury problems

1. I went back, and noticed I initially responded to Fish making a post about those players. My bad. Still, the Jazz could have added talent. Given the market they play in, and the current CBA/cap, the Jazz can't waste opportunities.

2. Related to the above, I didn't jump on the Jazz when they were injured and losing. I was one of the few making an argument about adding talent early on. The rampant 'I told you so', necro-bumping culture on this board is toxic.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Competition of minutes forces trades, with players whose ceilings we might not know.

Let's not forget the countless examples of this happening. Hood is putting up better numbers than Harden was in his 2nd season.

Trade situation can go both ways. Maybe their ceiling isn't as high as we thought (Kanter), maybe it's higher (Hood). Doesn't mean you don't bring in more competition, more talent.