Is Gordon Hayward overrated?

[Ellipse]

It's funny how malleable and easily deceived (some members) of a fan base, who watched their team get steamrolled by The GOAT, Michael Jordan, are....


I wonder how that could've happened in just 20 years.. Why would they place their faith in Hayward so easily?? The west is stronger now then it ever was..


Some of y'all act like this dude is Prime Tracy McGrady, he's echelons below...

How'd the standards get this low?? Is Al Jefferson still to blame?? Hayward isn't even close to as good (for Utah) as prime Deron.. How has that been lost in these conversations??

Same folks still trying to spin Hayward conversations into Burks vs Hayward discussions when Burks is already on-board for the next bunch of years, at an agreeable/reasonable salary for his age/talent/role/production.

These are some of the same folks that were breaking teenage Andrew Wiggins chops over lack of Killer Instinct.. right??? These are the people here giving 26 year old, highest-paid on the team, Hayward a pass, even calling him underrated.. It's totally disingenuous.. almost makes me think he's getting the benefit of the doubt because he's 'homegrown' and white..

I wonder if some of you truly see what it takes to actually win in the NBA?? It's much more than stats and efficiency, you still need to, as a team, will it to be so.. With Hayward as the top option on this team, that means 'the others' (who are all young as ****) have the option to make it happen themselves, or defer to Hayward (Or Favors) who aren't all that much better than a coinflip in big spots..

Luckily the FO knows this and has tweaked the roster so it's not set up to be made or broken by Hayward.. He's forced their hand to prepare themselves for him to leave after next season. With Hood here, Burks on a reasonable deal for 3 more seasons, multiple draft picks and capspace, they've done a better job than anyone could've expected.

"Pressure burts pipes, but it also buffs diamonds" Hayward has shown signs of bursting under not even all that much pressure, he's 26.. chances are he' a good, not great player and will remain as such..

Stephen Curry really started to break out near when he was about Haywards age, that's a bigtime outlier though..

What a bunch of drivel. Hayward IS the best player on this team; the problem is that he isn't a top ten player, maybe not even top 30, in the league. That isn't his problem, it is the team's problem and Lindsay needs to fix it. Dumping Hayward isn't going to make the team better, because it is not at small forward where we are hurting.

We need better options at the 2; Hood is okay for a starter, but I think we can do better than Burks -- hard to say, since Burks seems injured all of the time. And there is no point in even commenting on our point guard play; maybe Exum will fix it and maybe he won't.

I like Favors and Lyles, but I can't help but wonder if Gobert really is our future. Gobert's development regressed from where he ended last year.

So if we want to talk about which player is overrated by the majority of posters on this board, then my vote is for Rudy Gobert!

 

[akirac73]

Hood shot 26% in the final minute of close games compared to 56% from Hayward.

In clutch minutes Hood shot 40% and Hayward shot 43%.

So yeah, you are completely wrong.

Nice try, but you're wrong as usual (unless you're using some sort of unusual parameter for "clutch minutes" skewed to make Hayward look good)
According to NBA.com, 2015-16 REGULAR SEASON CLUTCH TRADITIONAL STATS:
Last 1 minute of the game, score within 5 pts...
Hayward: 39.4% FG, 23.5% 3PT
Hood: 39.1% FG, 26.9% 3PT
(our best clutch player) Burks: 52% FG, 42.9% 3PT

https://stats.nba.com/league/player...ype=Regular Season&Period=4&TeamID=1610612762

Basically, Hayward and Hood are about the same in the clutch. I don't know how the hell you came up with 56% shooting for Hayward...LOL. Nice try.

 

[bigmike]

I'm sorry, but if we pay Gordon 5 yr/$150M - in the current state this team is in - then I'll disown the Jazz.

That's an insane amount of money for anyone, let alone a guy who is just not a #1 player on a contender.

That is all.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Nice try, but you're wrong as usual (unless you're using some sort of unusual parameter for "clutch minutes" skewed to make Hayward look good)
According to NBA.com, 2015-16 REGULAR SEASON CLUTCH TRADITIONAL STATS:
Last 1 minute of the game, score within 5 pts...
Hayward: 39.4% FG, 23.5% 3PT
Hood: 39.1% FG, 26.9% 3PT
(our best clutch player) Burks: 52% FG, 42.9% 3PT

https://stats.nba.com/league/player...ype=Regular Season&Period=4&TeamID=1610612762

Basically, Hayward and Hood are about the same in the clutch. I don't know how the hell you came up with 56% shooting for Hayward...LOL. Nice try.

https://www.nbaminer.com/nbaminer_nbaminer/clutch_player_stats.php?order=alastmin_fgm

And when you run the final minute of game within 5 points on NBA.com it shows Hayward at 50% not 39%. The link you provided shows within 5 points with 5 minutes or less left.

 

[ghsartin]

Let's be honest. They are all overrated.

Favors, Hayward, Burks, Gobert...

We love them, but they arent what we need them to be. Not yet at least.

If think you are on to something here. I think league-wise they are rated correctly, but as fans we tend to overrate them somewhat. We root for Hayward and hope that he'll carry the team deep into the playoffs, but would be more reasonable to think of him as an smart player who is a borderline all-star but lacks the overall athleticism and shooting touch to be a go-to player. Also, he seems to have peaked. People here usually talk about Favors like he is Anthony Davis but he is older and smaller than Davis, has serious problems with his back and - more important - no inside game whatsoever. Because of his physical ailments, he seems close to his peak also. Burks doesn't seem smart enough to be a good player if he loses some of his athleticism but many people here still seems to hope he turns into Dwyane Wade. I guess we'll find that out for good next year. Gobert is probably going to be the best Jazz center ever - which is not saying much. Both his offense and defense are bound to improve a little with better strenght and conditioning and that's pretty much it. He doesn't seem coordinated enought to be more than a Dikembe Mutombo with better passing and worse post game.

 

[Douchebag K]

I'm sorry, but if we pay Gordon 5 yr/$150M - in the current state this team is in - then I'll disown the Jazz.

That's an insane amount of money for anyone, let alone a guy who is just not a #1 player on a contender.

That is all.

of course it's an insane amount of money. 10 million or whatever it's all insane.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Ron Mexico]

So this season Hayward played the second most total minutes, he also traveled the second most distance in the game total in the season. On offense he is running all over the place. Previous season he was 12th and the season before he was 10th in distance traveled for the season. I know he lead the league at a couple points in all three seasons . Even on a per game he is in the top 5 for the past 3 seasons.

Hayward is also getting physically beat up each game. He is always getting grabbed, pushed bumped and everything else.

Simply put it he is getting run ragged and beat down every game. Its no wonder he had no lift at the end of the season. Towards the end most of the time in the paint he was shooting flat footed. In end game situations he looks tired. This team is using and leaning on him more than most if not any team in the NBA does on 1 player. Hayward needs help and he needs to play less and he needs defenses to be required to defend and worry about other players on the court. I think Haywards 3 point shot is inconsistent because he rarely gets his legs under him. On a side note it is a miracle he has not been more injured the last three years.

He is asked to do more than Lebron, Durant and most the other star players even though he is not at their talent level.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Your mother should wash your filth mouth!

Lets leave the mothers out of this.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

So this season Hayward played the second most total minutes, he also traveled the second most distance in the game total in the season. On offense he is running all over the place. Previous season he was 12th and the season before he was 10th in distance traveled for the season. I know he lead the league at a couple points in all three seasons . Even on a per game he is in the top 5 for the past 3 seasons.

Hayward is also getting physically beat up each game. He is always getting grabbed, pushed bumped and everything else.

Simply put it he is getting run ragged and beat down every game. Its no wonder he had no lift at the end of the season. Towards the end most of the time in the paint he was shooting flat footed. In end game situations he looks tired. This team is using and leaning on him more than most if not any team in the NBA does on 1 player. Hayward needs help and he needs to play less and he needs defenses to be required to defend and worry about other players on the court. I think Haywards 3 point shot is inconsistent because he rarely gets his legs under him. On a side note it is a miracle he has not been more injured the last three years.

He is asked to do more than Lebron, Durant and most the other star players even though he is not at their talent level.

I am sick of this rest players BS. In the 50's, 60's and 70's NBA had the same amount of games that it has today, 82. It had the same amount of playing time per game, 48 minutes. The schedule back then was just as grueling as it is today. Difference is, today they have luxury planes to take them along their travel with masseuses to massage them on a regular basis and Dr's to evaluate their every nerve. In the early days they took a bus with no air conditioning and their doctor waited for them at the local hospital. At half time they smoked cigarettes and took shots of whiskey. Players today not only average less played games per year but also less minutes played per game. How about, tough love. Grow a pair of balls, quit making excuses and put your money where your mouth is while your on the court! I don't want to hear about little poor neglected Gordon Hayward, he is a grown man, and so are you, both you and him need to start acting like it! *Slap* Get a hold of yourself!!!!

 

[Ron Mexico]

I am sick of this rest players BS. In the 50's, 60's and 70's NBA had the same amount of games that it has today, 82. It had the same amount of playing time per game, 48 minutes. The schedule back then was just as grueling as it is today. Difference is, today they have luxury planes to take them along their travel with masseuses to massage them on a regular basis and Dr's to evaluate their every nerve. In the early days they took a bus with no air conditioning and their doctor waited for them at the local hospital. At half time they smoked cigarettes and took shots of whiskey. Players today not only average less played games per year but also less minutes played per game. How about, tough love. Grow a pair of balls, quit making excuses and put your money where your mouth is while your on the court! I don't want to hear about little poor neglected Gordon Hayward, he is a grown man, and so are you, both you and him need to start acting like it! *Slap* Get a hold of yourself!!!!

Thats great for those people back then. Today players are moving far more miles per game. Practice is much more intense as is the weight training regime. Players are more athletic and are jumping higher and moving faster on a consistent basis. Players are fatigued and they are getting injured. It takes a lot more to keep elite athletes in shape and injury free now then it did back then, The NBA is waaayyyy more popular and pays a **** ton more, which draws much more elite athletes/players. Players often showed up very drunk in the 60s to games, didnt practice, took smoke breaks, took illegal drugs before/during games, and many other things. Should players today do those things as well since players did those things and were "fine" back then? Its a different game and a different era.

Now, back to the facts. Players injury rate greatly increases with increased minutes and goes way up when a player is fatigued and worn down and trying to keep playing. Players also shoot worse when their legs are fatigued. *slap* at least you have a catch phrase and a shtick to fall back on...

Hayward did "put his money where his mouth is" he was the best player on this team.

Being born with a penis between your legs is what makes you a man, nothing else matters or makes you more or less of a man. Sorry you feel you have to prove something to be a "man."

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Are you kidding me right now? So giving you the benefit of the doubt, you are basically saying that, players back then could enter a game hungover and on illegal drugs but were able to play more minutes per game and more games per year because players back then could run as fast or jump as high?? Great point. Your a GD Genius.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Are you kidding me right now? So giving you the benefit of the doubt, you are basically saying that, players back then could enter a game hungover and on illegal drugs but were able to play more minutes per game and more games per year because players back then could run as fast or jump as high?? Great point. Your a GD Genius.

No, I am saying many players did that it was to prove a point that player back then did many ill advised things like play to many minutes but it matter less then and was easier to do.

There were lower quality basketball players back then.

There were lesser athletes less then.

The game was slower and less competitive back then.

Playing more minutes back then was much easier and required less of the player physically.

Playing through injuries and being beat up mattered less then since it was a lower quality league and less parity.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

More than half the teams in the NBA in a given year make the playoffs. The Jazz couldn't make them. Yes, the injuries sucked, but this was also the weakest field they could've played against. How bad the majority of the Western Conference is a way bigger outlier than the amount of the Jazz's injuries. They had the 12th worst record in basketball. I see the potential, but the results don't point "good" to me. Certainly not good enough to entice free agents, even their own.

Hayward is a terrific player and great piece. But for him, why would he stay with a treadmill team that can't make the playoffs? Why would the Jazz devote such resources to a player that is short of a legit #1 playing for a treadmill team? At this point, keeping him heading into the season would be the gamble.

Last season Utah managed a better road record than the year they went to the WCF with Deron and Boozer, and they did it after the disaster of a first half with Kanter starting. The ability to win on the road is IMO the best measure of when a team is becoming legit, and last year's team was the closest we've been to being a good road team since S&M. I personally believe we were turning a corner and that the majority of fans are underestimating just how much injuries DID factor in, particularly the loss of Exum.

I don't see how you classify Utah as a treadmill team without completely ignoring the very legitimate reasoning of multiple injuries to our most important players.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

In the 50's, 60's and 70's NBA had the same amount of games that it has today, 82.

Wut

 

[Mcelmurry]

Ha what's joke

Hayward is BAD,rather than good, by definition(below average, by the facts- stat categories vs the NBA averages)! And when he's below average, and is given credit for being a near all-star, he cannot be underrated! Of the 7 areas that have any impact on the game, he's below league-average in 5 of them(bad)! He's given credit as being a good rebounder when per 36 minutes he's 1.1 below SF average, he's 0.2 steals below average, 0.3 blocks below average and yet he still gives up 0.8 points worse than average in total defenive points given up while not taking any risks! He turns it over 0.3x more than average for his assist/point totals. And so the only areas he's even above average are passing, by 1.6 assists per 36 min, and points per FG+FT possession-used, just Barely, by 0.8 points per game, and that's only due to him taking nearly Every single tech and must-foul FT when he's not the Jazz's best FT shooter,so he actually hurts them in getting those free points to inflate his total. Hardly a single other SF takes all those,so he wouldn't even be above average in that area either, if not for those free points that hurt the Jazz. That's why they've lost more than won every single year he's had the ball in his hands. He's below average by the facts, but the media had no one else to prop up in Utah!

 

[Mcelmurry]

Hayward is bad, by definition(below the NBA SF averages in total play)! Of the 7 areas that have any impact on the game, he's below league-average in 5 of them! He's given credit as being a good rebounder when per 36 minutes he's 1.1 below SF average, he's 0.2 steals below average, 0.3 blocks below average, and yet he STILL gives up 0.8 points worse than average in total defense while obviously not taking any risks! He turns it over 0.3x more than average for his assist/point totals. And so the only areas he's even above average are passing, by 1.6 assists per 36 min, and points per FG+FT possession-used, just Barely, by 0.8 points per game, and that's only due to him taking nearly Every single tech and must-foul FT when he's not the Jazz's best FT shooter,so he actually hurts them in getting those free points to inflate his total. Hardly a single other SF takes all those,so he wouldn't even be above average in that area either, if not for those free points he gets while hurting the Jazz. That's why they've lost more than won every single year he's had the ball in his hands. He's below average by the facts, but the media had no one else to prop up in Utah!

 

[Mcelmurry]

You have $150 million to pay him!? What do you do for the Jazz?

 

[Mcelmurry]

And because Hayward played all those minutes, so the ball was in his hands that much at his below-average talent, they lost more games than they won yet again! He's below SF average in rebounds per min, steal%, block%, total defensive points given up(SOMEHOW,EVEN with Favors and Gobert giving him the advantage of them being 5 points Better than average for 2/3 of Hayward's minutes! He's really THAT bad to even Still come out below average,meaning he had to be 9 points worse than average all the time, for the 1/3 of the time without Favors and Gobert to result in a -6), and turnovers per assist/points. There are only TWO other categories that have any impact on the game!- assists and points per possession-used. He was 1.6 assists better than average and 0.8 total points better per game for his shot total, when had he not taken nearly Every Single tech and must-foul FT when he's not their best FT shooter(so getting those free points to inflate his total actually hurt Utah), he wouldn't have even been At All above average in that way Either, instead of barely above, since hardly another SF gets all those. The facts show that the media built him up falsely since there was no one else to do so with in Utah. He's below average by the numbers,and that's why they lose with him as their #1. Plain and simple. Look at the numbers.

 

[fishonjazz]

That escalated quickly

 

[Siro]

Oh, a new troll. How exciting.