Never Trump

[Stoked]

This is a plus for Trump. People don't like those old farts. That's what this election is all about, dumping the stuffed shirts.

It is about that. But that will play well with your base and undecided independents.

 

[Stoked]

I think there has never been a better chance of a dem winning Utah than now. But there is no way it happens if people have the mindset that you have (of there being no chance)

The only way I see her winning Utah is if there is a large surge in 3rd party votes in Utah.

 

[babe]

The only way I see her winning Utah is if there is a large surge in 3rd party votes in Utah.

It will take a few months' cool-off and some behind-the-scenes coddling of the ultra-conservatives while making a reasonable effort to build on Hillary's, or maybe even more likely, Bernie's horror images, but I'm sure there will be no third party that gets any traction. Bernie's not going to do it, the GOP establishment won't do it, and the ultra-conservatives won't do it, and even Coltin will swallow hard, clench his fist, and vote for Trump.

Trump will lead in the polls by June, and the Dems will go wacko overkill on Trump to no effect.

People want something that looks different.

Trump has no problem talking normal if he wants to, and he can speak to the liberals about as well as he can speak to the conservatives. That's what being no ideologue with intellectual hangups appeals to most people.

Call him a racist, whatever, he will make you look stupid.

 

[fishonjazz]

I have never voted before. Because like gameface and many others i knew that my vote didn't matter. Utah's electoral vote was going to the repub candidate no matter what anyway. I'm sure that the republicans love that so many of us think that way.

When I, and im sure most people, think of the typical Utah voter i think if an older conservative white Mormon person. Yet gay marriage is legal in Utah. There is a huge lgbt community here (one of the biggest anywhere iirc). There is a pretty big Hispanic population here. Cannabis oil is now legal here (iirc). Medicinal marijuana had a decent chance of being legalized (from what I read it was pretty close).
Utah has slowly been changing right under our noses yet still the same mindset persists of the repub automatically winning.

Maybe that is still normally the case but this election is very strange and very different from past elections.

I voted for bernie in the primaries and I saw huge crowds of supporters.

Let's say all those bernie people vote for hillary. All the Hispanics vote Hillary (they hate trump right?) All the lgbt community votes for Hillary. (They hate trump too right?) A lot of republican women vote for Hillary (since Hillary is a woman and trump is a sexist pig). Then you have a lot of the stereotypical republican men (older white conservative Mormons) who won't vote for trump and instead don't vote at all or vote for a third party.... Or even vote for Hillary (very unlikely I know). My dad (stereotypical utah repub) won't vote for Hillary (He hates her) but he won't vote for trump either. I'm certain there are more stereotypical utah republicans out there like him too.

Now there will definitely still be a lot of utah republicans that will just vote for trump just because (mostly out of stubbornness and hate for democrats) but if the gays, Hispanics, bernie supporters, women, Hillary supporters all vote for Hillary and some of the normally repub voters (like Colton) don't vote for trump, then maybe trump loses Utah's electoral vote.

Maybe not.

But if everyone has the attitude that trump will win utah no matter what (exactly what his supporters hope we think), and don't vote for his only real opponent, then guess what? Trump will win.

So gameface (and others with the same attitude) if you truly are never trump and would do anything to make him lose (like I think you said) then how about all us utah nevertrumpers vote for his opponent (Hillary) no matter how much we don't like her. (I don't like Hillary).

 

[Gameface]

I have never voted before. Because like gameface and many others i knew that my vote didn't matter. Utah's electoral vote was going to the repub candidate no matter what anyway. I'm sure that the republicans love that so many of us think that way.

When I, and im sure most people, think of the typical Utah voter i think if an older conservative white Mormon person. Yet gay marriage is legal in Utah. There is a huge lgbt community here (one of the biggest anywhere iirc). There is a pretty big Hispanic population here. Cannabis oil is now legal here (iirc). Medicinal marijuana had a decent chance of being legalized (from what I read it was pretty close).
Utah has slowly been changing right under our noses yet still the same mindset persists of the repub automatically winning.

Maybe that is still normally the case but this election is very strange and very different from past elections.

I voted for bernie in the primaries and I saw huge crowds of supporters.

Let's say all those bernie people vote for hillary. All the Hispanics vote Hillary (they hate trump right?) All the lgbt community votes for Hillary. (They hate trump too right?) A lot of republican women vote for Hillary (since Hillary is a woman and trump is a sexist pig). Then you have a lot of the stereotypical republican men (older white conservative Mormons) who won't vote for trump and instead don't vote at all or vote for a third party.... Or even vote for Hillary (very unlikely I know). My dad (stereotypical utah repub) won't vote for Hillary (He hates her) but he won't vote for trump either. I'm certain there are more stereotypical utah republicans out there like him too.

Now there will definitely still be a lot of utah republicans that will just vote for trump just because (mostly out of stubbornness and hate for democrats) but if the gays, Hispanics, bernie supporters, women, Hillary supporters all vote and some of the normally repub voters (like Colton) don't vote for trump, then maybe trump loses Utah's electoral vote.

Maybe not.

But if everyone has the attitude that trump will win utah no matter what (exactly what his supporters hope we think), and don't vote for his only real opponent, then guess what? Trump will win.

So gameface (and others with the same attitude) if you truly are never trump and would do anything to make him lose (like I think you said) then how about all us utah nevertrumpers vote for his opponent (Hillary) no matter how much we don't like her. (I don't like Hillary).

Despite what I've said in this thread that got cappy all wound up for some reason, I plan to vote for Hillary. I don't "like" her, but I actually think she'll make a better than average President, just like Obama did.

 

[fishonjazz]

The only way I see her winning Utah is if there is a large surge in 3rd party votes in Utah.

See below.
If people against trump think that hillary can't beat trump and instead just vote third party in the hopes of future change then Hillary and third party split those votes and the staunch and stubborn repubs stick to their votes for trump and then trump wins.

However if all the Hillary supporters, third party supporters, bernie supporters, and nevertrumpers all join together and vote for the same person (Hillary) who actually has a chance in the nationwide voting then maybe trump loses utah.

See below post

I have never voted before. Because like gameface and many others i knew that my vote didn't matter. Utah's electoral vote was going to the repub candidate no matter what anyway. I'm sure that the republicans love that so many of us think that way.

When I, and im sure most people, think of the typical Utah voter i think if an older conservative white Mormon person. Yet gay marriage is legal in Utah. There is a huge lgbt community here (one of the biggest anywhere iirc). There is a pretty big Hispanic population here. Cannabis oil is now legal here (iirc). Medicinal marijuana had a decent chance of being legalized (from what I read it was pretty close).
Utah has slowly been changing right under our noses yet still the same mindset persists of the repub automatically winning.

Maybe that is still normally the case but this election is very strange and very different from past elections.

I voted for bernie in the primaries and I saw huge crowds of supporters.

Let's say all those bernie people vote for hillary. All the Hispanics vote Hillary (they hate trump right?) All the lgbt community votes for Hillary. (They hate trump too right?) A lot of republican women vote for Hillary (since Hillary is a woman and trump is a sexist pig). Then you have a lot of the stereotypical republican men (older white conservative Mormons) who won't vote for trump and instead don't vote at all or vote for a third party.... Or even vote for Hillary (very unlikely I know). My dad (stereotypical utah repub) won't vote for Hillary (He hates her) but he won't vote for trump either. I'm certain there are more stereotypical utah republicans out there like him too.

Now there will definitely still be a lot of utah republicans that will just vote for trump just because (mostly out of stubbornness and hate for democrats) but if the gays, Hispanics, bernie supporters, women, Hillary supporters all vote and some of the normally repub voters (like Colton) don't vote for trump, then maybe trump loses Utah's electoral vote.

Maybe not.

But if everyone has the attitude that trump will win utah no matter what (exactly what his supporters hope we think), and don't vote for his only real opponent, then guess what? Trump will win.

So gameface (and others with the same attitude) if you truly are never trump and would do anything to make him lose (like I think you said) then how about all us utah nevertrumpers vote for his opponent (Hillary) no matter how much we don't like her. (I don't like Hillary).

 

[fishonjazz]

Despite what I've said in this thread that got cappy all wound up for some reason, I plan to vote for Hillary. I don't "like" her, but I actually think she'll make a better than average President, just like Obama did.

Sweet. I actually more than don't like her. I really dislike her. But I don't want trump to win and will do anything to help make him lose.

I have never voted before this year but my hate for the donald is strong enough to drag me to the polls. I'm guessing there are many more like me too.

 

[fishonjazz]

#nevertrumper

 

[♪alt13]

Absolutely, eventually Trump and the republican establishment will get together and the Paul Ryan's and the John McCain's will get their assurances from Trump that things will be as they always have and in return they'll throw their support behind him and promise to play nice for the TV Cameras and the print media.

Like the old saying goes, democrats fall in love and republicans fall in line.

Why would the establishment do that? Ryan stepped aside this cycle for Jeb not Donald.(oops) He/they want Ryan to run for POTUS in 2020. If Trump wins he can't. Further Clinton will only help the GOP in the midterms while Trump would hurt them. The establishment GOP has already surrendered the executive to Hilary.

 

[JazzGal]

Why would the establishment do that? Ryan stepped aside this cycle for Jeb not Donald.(oops) He/they want Ryan to run for POTUS in 2020. If Trump wins he can't. Further Clinton will only help the GOP in the midterms while Trump would hurt them. The establishment GOP has already surrendered the executive to Hilary.

Interesting.

 

[babe]

Sweet. I actually more than don't like her. I really dislike her. But I don't want trump to win and will do anything to help make him lose.

I have never voted before this year but my hate for the donald is strong enough to drag me to the polls. I'm guessing there are many more like me too.

For every voter like you, there's two who would drag themselves for the first time ever, to the polls, to vote for Trump.

Do you know how many Hispanics, women, LGBTs, work for Trumpsters, think like Trumpsters? It's about the economy, buddy. Jobs, and Trump is not ideological at all. That means he hates nobody. Maybe he says stuff without much thought, but it's not stuck on it. Trump is a winner, and he can feel the stadium shaking.

 

[fishonjazz]

For every voter like you, there's two who would drag themselves for the first time ever, to the polls, to vote for Trump.

Do you know how many Hispanics, women, LGBTs, work for Trumpsters, think like Trumpsters? It's about the economy, buddy. Jobs, and Trump is not ideological at all. That means he hates nobody. Maybe he says stuff without much thought, but it's not stuck on it. Trump is a winner, and he can feel the stadium shaking.

We disagree. And as far as what I have seen on jazzfanz, facebook, talking to family, talking to friends, talking to co-workers..... No one wants trump as pres and no one I talk to or interact with online will vote for him (except duck rogers).

Is everyone a liar? Are people going to actually be voting for trump but are ashamed to actually vocalize it and so they hide it from everyone? If so, the hiding and lying and willingness to vote for someone they are ashamed of is disgusting and shameful.

 

[babe]

We disagree. And as far as what I have seen on jazzfanz, facebook, talking to family, talking to friends, talking to co-workers..... No one wants trump as pres and no one I talk to or interact with online will vote for him (except duck rogers).

Is everyone a liar? Are people going to actually be voting for trump but are ashamed to actually vocalize it and so they hide it from everyone? If so, the hiding and lying and willingness to vote for someone they are ashamed of is disgusting and shameful.

I think it's probable that the JazzFanzers are pretty normal dudes overall, or dudettes as the case may be, but I think this discussion board collects a little subset of that, of like-minded folks, who do a good job just running others out if they don't agree. . . .

I think I enjoy seeing your opinions here because it's all new to me.

It's cool if people don't agree with me. If they did, I'd try another tack to see how things settle with other people.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think this discussion board collects a little subset of that, of like-minded folks, who do a good job just running others out if they don't agree. . . .

Fwiw duck rogers said he was voting for trump and no one said a single negative thing about him for it. No one tried to run him off much less a whole group.

 

[Stoked]

It will take a few months' cool-off and some behind-the-scenes coddling of the ultra-conservatives while making a reasonable effort to build on Hillary's, or maybe even more likely, Bernie's horror images, but I'm sure there will be no third party that gets any traction. Bernie's not going to do it, the GOP establishment won't do it, and the ultra-conservatives won't do it, and even Coltin will swallow hard, clench his fist, and vote for Trump.

Trump will lead in the polls by June, and the Dems will go wacko overkill on Trump to no effect.

People want something that looks different.

Trump has no problem talking normal if he wants to, and he can speak to the liberals about as well as he can speak to the conservatives. That's what being no ideologue with intellectual hangups appeals to most people.

Call him a racist, whatever, he will make you look stupid.

He wont be able to over come the negative impression he has among latinos, millenials and women (massive negativity ratings in those groups like 70%+) He will probably win Utah but he loses the general IMO.

 

[babe]

He wont be able to over come the negative impression he has among latinos, millenials and women (massive negativity ratings in those groups like 70%+) He will probably win Utah but he loses the general IMO.

Republican Establishment folks buy this, I'm sure, but fwiw, I don't think they care. They are willing to let the demographics drift out to sea so long as they keep their little jobs.

But for all the media hype, and all the fretting little political hacks, the things that stir people will make this an interesting election.

We've got a backlash against the most intransigent ideological political hack ever to pontificate from the Oval Office, and there's a huge impression that Trump is everything he's not. And Hillary was/is part of that past people just want to get past.

So is the media.

I have faith that the big money will ride this wave, not fight it. Even the media will change tack to catch this wind.

 

[fishonjazz]

I just got this in the mail

It says that to vote for a republican candidate you have to register yourself with the republican party. Wtf?
So if I'm just a free thinking, willing to listen to both democratic ideas/candidates and republican ideas/candidates then I'm not able to cast my vote for a republican individual who I like?

That's strange.

 

[JazzGal]

That's the joys of Utah Republicans (and other states as well). I vote in the Democrat primary because they will let me. I see both sides of the issue, though, and understand their contention that the primaries should be "member only."

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

That's the joys of Utah Republicans (and other states as well). I vote in the Democrat primary because they will let me. I see both sides of the issue, though, and understand their contention that the primaries should be "member only."

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

Why do you think they want it to be members only? I'm curious as have no idea why that would be advantageous.

 

[JazzGal]

Why do you think they want it to be members only? I'm curious as have no idea why that would be advantageous.

It's all about control. When it first went to a closed primary it was because they were worried Democrats were voting in their primaries trying to affect the outcomes. I thought it was hilarious because there wasn't enough Democrats in the state at the time to change much.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app