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What Happened to Katie?

Gameface said:
I negged you because I asked you a direct question three times and you never answered it. That's what I said in the neg, and also that instead of answering you called me naive. I didn't feel like you were contributing to the discussion, just ratcheting up the animosity.
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Whatever. I felt like I responded to all of your posts that were directed toward me but maybe I didn't adequately address some topic along the way. As to ratcheting up the animosity, I believe that the animosity around this issue has been created by the left. Why are they turning this into an issue? The answers might be found in this article:

https://www.wnd.com/2016/05/obamas-gender-identity-rules-go-beyond-bathrooms-showers/
 
What I find interesting is that so many people treat this issue as if it is a new thing, as if transgender people haven't been dealing with this for centuries. From what I can see, most transgender people do not start transitioning by high school (I imagine due to their own confusion, fear of rejection, etc). So this small minority is even smaller for minors. In the past it appears this has been handled on a case-by-case basis on the school district level, and no one has been making transgender kids shower with other kids. I do not believe that proponents of bathroom use by gender identity are insisting that they be forced to take showers with everyone else. This just seems to me like an argument with little basis in fact and a scare tactic because of misunderstanding and distaste.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/us/as-transgender-students-make-gains-schools-hesitate-at-bathrooms.html?_r=0

In Los Angeles, where the district has had a policy allowing transgender students to use bathrooms and locker rooms according to their gender identity since 2004, Judy Chiasson, coordinator in the Human Relations, Diversity and Equity Department for the Los Angeles Unified School District, said that schools have had few complaints.

“All of our students tend to be pretty modest,” Ms. Chiasson said. She added that unlike students in previous generations, even after physical education classes or athletic practices, students today do not tend to undress or shower in public facilities, and in bathrooms, students can use private stalls. Because of this, she said, in many cases, students do not even know whether another student is transgender or not.

A transgender student does not want “to invade anybody else’s privacy,” Ms. Chiasson said. “She’s in the bathroom to do her business.”
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JazzGal said:
What I find interesting is that so many people treat this issue as if it is a new thing, as if transgender people haven't been dealing with this for centuries. From what I can see, most transgender people do not start transitioning by high school (I imagine due to their own confusion, fear of rejection, etc). So this small minority is even smaller for minors. In the past it appears this has been handled on a case-by-case basis on the school district level, and no one has been making transgender kids shower with other kids. I do not believe that proponents of bathroom use by gender identity are insisting that they be forced to take showers with everyone else. This just seems to me like an argument with little basis in fact and a scare tactic because of misunderstanding and distaste.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/us/as-transgender-students-make-gains-schools-hesitate-at-bathrooms.html?_r=0
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Arguing that because they are discriminated against so will not come out the closet in jr high yet they should not be discriminated against is a sloppy stance. It is very reasonable to assume the trajectory the future will go given Lord Obamas dictate.
 
dalamon said:
I can find articles of ppl dying from drinking too much water.

Do you have stats that prove your point of this "slippery slope" you're freaking out about? Simply posting articles isn't compelling.

Again, I'll ask you
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People can die from drinking too much water. You think that posting an article about it happening would prove otherwise? Did you read the article. Here's part:

The ACLU of Illinois is representing the student.

“It’s one thing to say to all the girls, ‘You can choose if you want some extra privacy,’ but it’s another thing to say, ‘You, and you alone, must use them.’ That sends a pretty strong signal to her that she’s not accepted and the district does not see her as girl,” Knight also told the Chicago newspaper.

On Monday, the Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights agreed.

“Student A has not only received an unequal opportunity to benefit from the District’s educational program, but has also experienced an ongoing sense of isolation and ostracism throughout her high school enrollment at the school,” the letter from the Office for Civil Rights proclaims.

Read more: https://dailycaller.com/2015/11/03/...o-use-girls-shower-locker-room/#ixzz49hPKmlDe
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So how does posting that information which is in direct opposition to what the post I was responding to claimed somehow make what it says invalid.

And regarding your question, it doesn't even make any sense. What are you asking me? And even if I knew what the question was, what would the answer have to do with this issue?
 
I knew someone would find an example disproving my claim. Oh well - maybe it's time to get rid of our puritan distain for nudity. We already allow kids who may be sexually attracted to each other to shower together based solely on their gender and not their sexual attraction, and you don't hear of orgies happening in school locker rooms. So it basically comes down to not wanting our daughters to see a penis. And really, what's the big deal with that?

The memories of community showering in junior high still make me uncomfortable - not because of anyone else's body, but because of my own insecurities and body shame. Nothing fixes that.
 
dalamon said:
I can find articles of ppl dying from drinking too much water.

Do you have stats that prove your point of this "slippery slope" you're freaking out about? Simply posting articles isn't compelling.

Again, I'll ask you
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Again I will ask u what your obsession with exposing men to young girls? I find most times ppl push hard for crazy notions like this have ulterior motives. What is yours?
 
Boris said:
Again I will ask u what your obsession with exposing men to young girls? I find most times ppl push hard for crazy notions like this have ulterior motives. What is yours?
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How often do women and young girls shower together? You make it sound as if grown-ups and children shower together on a regular basis.
 
JazzGal said:
So it basically comes down to not wanting our daughters to see a penis.
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In this 22 page thread that's the first time I've seen that point brought up by anyone on either side of the argument, so I think it's pretty safe to say that is not basically what it all comes down to.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
In this 22 page thread that's the first time I've seen that point brought up by anyone on either side of the argument, so I think it's pretty safe to say that is not basically what it all comes down to.
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You are right - I neglected the federal government/states/school districts rights battles.
 
Not sure why a female or a male seeing a penis is harmful for them or dangerous. The only reason why it would be is because they were told it was harmful for them. Seeing people naked is not harmful.

If your daughter understand body parts and showers around body parts they will be just fine and unharmed.

Are you afraid of your son showering near a vagina? Are you afraid of your son seeing or being around another penis? Are you afraid of your son or daughter seeing knee caps, ears or even heaven forbid a tailbone? Body parts needing to be covered up is simply arbitrary. Other societies have deemed different body parts as something to be hidden. Our society didnt use to like men having their shirts off because they found it offensive to see topless men. That changed and no one blinks twice when you see a man at the beach with his top off. Just like in societies where a penis or vagina uncovered is no big deal, no one reacts when they see one or cares.

Maybe parents should teach their kids what the body parts are and use their correct names. Teach them that they are allowed to pick who touches their body and who doesnt. That each person can choose who they are and what they do and to each their own. That every person and every body deserves respect and that they are all different and unique and that is okay. Teach them to respect themselves and others. Seems like that would solve most our problems with these "issues."

In jr high kids are mean and make jokes about bodies. This is due to our society and parenting. Additionally in jr high and high school the kids who are sexually assaulted and who are teased are most often boys doing it to other boys. Girls also do it to each other. Most of the boys and girls teasing and doing the assaulting are straight as well. So if your concern is about your kid being teased or abused then having a trans gendered kid (which is highly unlikely) around has very little possibility if any of them teasing or abusing your kid. It is far more likely with kids that the odd one who is uncomfortable with their body and feels out of place is going to be abused and teased. The minority group does not generally abuse the majority in kids locker room.

I do believe our society needs to relax about bodies and be more comfortable with their own bodies and bodies that are different from theirs. Group showers should not be an issue. But if a kid is uncomfortable of other kids and/or teachers they should be able to go into a shower that is private. The expense to build a shower with stalls would not be that much more if any over group showers.

Additionally @Joe Bagadonuts you said society is heading the wrong way with protecting or being concerned with this small minority of trans gendered people. That statement has is the opposite of what it should be. The majority do not need to be protected, they are the majority. The rights that need protection in society are the group that is abused and hurt the most which is minorities. I am shocked someone would feel the opposite. White males, especially Christians, in our society have by far the most advantage and are the least abused of any group. Their walk in life is so much easier than everyone else's as a whole. Pretty sure that the number of white, straight, Christian males that have been abused by a trans gendered person is as close to 0 percent as possible. I am also positive that the majority of trans gendered people have been abused, teased or made to feel bad about themselves at least once on average by a straight white male.

The trans gendered issue inst about safety of your kids or women in lockers/showers. Abuse has been happening and is going to keep happening and the people doing it are rarely trans gendered people. This issue is about being uncomfortable with someone different and not respecting the rights of someone that has a different life style from your own.

If we want to talk about sexual assault and how to solve that then it is a different topic. One that revolves around boys growing up with a lack of respect for women and viewing them as objects and has nothing to do with where a trans gendered person goes to the bathroom.
 
Broncster said:
Not sure why a female or a male seeing a penis is harmful for them or dangerous. The only reason why it would be is because they were told it was harmful for them. Seeing people naked is not harmful.

If your daughter understand body parts and showers around body parts they will be just fine and unharmed.

Are you afraid of your son showering near a vagina? Are you afraid of your son seeing or being around another penis? Are you afraid of your son or daughter seeing knee caps, ears or even heaven forbid a tailbone? Body parts needing to be covered up is simply arbitrary. Other societies have deemed different body parts as something to be hidden. Our society didnt use to like men having their shirts off because they found it offensive to see topless men. That changed and no one blinks twice when you see a man at the beach with his top off. Just like in societies where a penis or vagina uncovered is no big deal, no one reacts when they see one or cares.

Maybe parents should teach their kids what the body parts are and use their correct names. Teach them that they are allowed to pick who touches their body and who doesnt. That each person can choose who they are and what they do and to each their own. That every person and every body deserves respect and that they are all different and unique and that is okay. Teach them to respect themselves and others. Seems like that would solve most our problems with these "issues."

In jr high kids are mean and make jokes about bodies. This is due to our society and parenting. Additionally in jr high and high school the kids who are sexually assaulted and who are teased are most often boys doing it to other boys. Girls also do it to each other. Most of the boys and girls teasing and doing the assaulting are straight as well. So if your concern is about your kid being teased or abused then having a trans gendered kid (which is highly unlikely) around has very little possibility if any of them teasing or abusing your kid. It is far more likely with kids that the odd one who is uncomfortable with their body and feels out of place is going to be abused and teased. The minority group does not generally abuse the majority in kids locker room.

I do believe our society needs to relax about bodies and be more comfortable with their own bodies and bodies that are different from theirs. Group showers should not be an issue. But if a kid is uncomfortable of other kids and/or teachers they should be able to go into a shower that is private. The expense to build a shower with stalls would not be that much more if any over group showers.

Additionally @Joe Bagadonuts you said society is heading the wrong way with protecting or being concerned with this small minority of trans gendered people. That statement has is the opposite of what it should be. The majority do not need to be protected, they are the majority. The rights that need protection in society are the group that is abused and hurt the most which is minorities. I am shocked someone would feel the opposite. White males, especially Christians, in our society have by far the most advantage and are the least abused of any group. Their walk in life is so much easier than everyone else's as a whole. Pretty sure that the number of white, straight, Christian males that have been abused by a trans gendered person is as close to 0 percent as possible. I am also positive that the majority of trans gendered people have been abused, teased or made to feel bad about themselves at least once on average by a straight white male.

The trans gendered issue inst about safety of your kids or women in lockers/showers. Abuse has been happening and is going to keep happening and the people doing it are rarely trans gendered people. This issue is about being uncomfortable with someone different and not respecting the rights of someone that has a different life style from your own.

If we want to talk about sexual assault and how to solve that then it is a different topic. One that revolves around boys growing up with a lack of respect for women and viewing them as objects and has nothing to do with where a trans gendered person goes to the bathroom.
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I knew the hippies would show up. This poster wants are children to shower together cause apparently there is nothing wrong w it. Let us all just talk w are kids cause that will automatically solve every problem there is. Let us ignore that life events are real and pretend we can massage them out of existence. [MENTION=181]Broncster[/MENTION] did u know nobody really dies of cancer or that free everything will never ever push ppl to laziness?
 
I mean come on. That was basically the argument that pedophile parents should be allowed to abuse there children because if we teach them that sex is fine they will be well rounded. So ridiculousness.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
It would be way, way, way easier for everyone if we just relabeled the rooms Penis and Vagina so that there is really no debate about which room each person belongs in. It seems to me that the left is apparently getting their jollys out of creating chaos where it simply doesn't need to exist. I can only assume that they believe that pushing this issue will help in motivating their base.
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What about people born with both a penis and vagina? What about people born with neither?
 
Broncster said:
Not sure why a female or a male seeing a penis is harmful for them or dangerous. The only reason why it would be is because they were told it was harmful for them. Seeing people naked is not harmful.

If your daughter understand body parts and showers around body parts they will be just fine and unharmed.

Are you afraid of your son showering near a vagina? Are you afraid of your son seeing or being around another penis? Are you afraid of your son or daughter seeing knee caps, ears or even heaven forbid a tailbone? Body parts needing to be covered up is simply arbitrary. Other societies have deemed different body parts as something to be hidden. Our society didnt use to like men having their shirts off because they found it offensive to see topless men. That changed and no one blinks twice when you see a man at the beach with his top off. Just like in societies where a penis or vagina uncovered is no big deal, no one reacts when they see one or cares.

Maybe parents should teach their kids what the body parts are and use their correct names. Teach them that they are allowed to pick who touches their body and who doesnt. That each person can choose who they are and what they do and to each their own. That every person and every body deserves respect and that they are all different and unique and that is okay. Teach them to respect themselves and others. Seems like that would solve most our problems with these "issues."

In jr high kids are mean and make jokes about bodies. This is due to our society and parenting. Additionally in jr high and high school the kids who are sexually assaulted and who are teased are most often boys doing it to other boys. Girls also do it to each other. Most of the boys and girls teasing and doing the assaulting are straight as well. So if your concern is about your kid being teased or abused then having a trans gendered kid (which is highly unlikely) around has very little possibility if any of them teasing or abusing your kid. It is far more likely with kids that the odd one who is uncomfortable with their body and feels out of place is going to be abused and teased. The minority group does not generally abuse the majority in kids locker room.

I do believe our society needs to relax about bodies and be more comfortable with their own bodies and bodies that are different from theirs. Group showers should not be an issue. But if a kid is uncomfortable of other kids and/or teachers they should be able to go into a shower that is private. The expense to build a shower with stalls would not be that much more if any over group showers.

Additionally @Joe Bagadonuts you said society is heading the wrong way with protecting or being concerned with this small minority of trans gendered people. That statement has is the opposite of what it should be. The majority do not need to be protected, they are the majority. The rights that need protection in society are the group that is abused and hurt the most which is minorities. I am shocked someone would feel the opposite. White males, especially Christians, in our society have by far the most advantage and are the least abused of any group. Their walk in life is so much easier than everyone else's as a whole. Pretty sure that the number of white, straight, Christian males that have been abused by a trans gendered person is as close to 0 percent as possible. I am also positive that the majority of trans gendered people have been abused, teased or made to feel bad about themselves at least once on average by a straight white male.

The trans gendered issue inst about safety of your kids or women in lockers/showers. Abuse has been happening and is going to keep happening and the people doing it are rarely trans gendered people. This issue is about being uncomfortable with someone different and not respecting the rights of someone that has a different life style from your own.

If we want to talk about sexual assault and how to solve that then it is a different topic. One that revolves around boys growing up with a lack of respect for women and viewing them as objects and has nothing to do with where a trans gendered person goes to the bathroom.
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First of all, you are now the second person to make the argument that seeing genitals is the issue, and the other person was also on your same side of the argument. You probably do this because it is so much easier to mock the oppositions argument when you adjust it to fit your own needs. The actual issues have been stated repeatedly if you want to read the thread and address them instead.

Regarding the portion of your post directed at me, statistically 0.03% of the population is transgender. So over that fraction of a fraction of a percent we're going to rewrite the rules? There is a much larger percentage of the population over 300 lbs and they have a ton of challenges to deal with, many of which are created by people who are smaller in size and apparently don't care about the needs of the large. Are the the morbidly obese simply too large of a minority for us to be concerned with? Or are you really willing to apply your same minority logic to any minority that anybody can dream up, no matter how small?

The bathroom norms that were previously in place were working perfectly fine. There might have been a few people in the country who felt inconvenienced because they chose a lifestyle that made their bathroom choice a little bit more difficult, but even among the transgendered I'll bet the vast majority figured out a solution that worked for them and nobody else really cared. But apparently someone was in need of a ****storm so they decided they needed to make an issue of this. I wonder who will ultimately benefit.
 
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Joe Bagadonuts said:
First of all, you are now the second person to make the argument that seeing genitals is the issue, and the other person was also on your same side of the argument. You probably do this because it is so much easier to mock the oppositions argument when you adjust it to fit your own needs. The actual issues have been stated repeatedly if you want to read the thread and address them instead.

Regarding the portion of your post directed at me, statistically 0.03% of the population is transgender. So over that fraction of a fraction of a percent we're going to rewrite the rules? There is a much larger percentage of the population over 300 lbs and they have a ton of challenges to deal with, many of which are created by people who are smaller in size and apparently don't care about the needs of the large. Are the the morbidly obese simply too large of a minority for us to be concerned with? Or are you really willing to apply your same minority logic to any minority that anybody can dream up, no matter how small?

The bathroom norms that were previously in place were working perfectly fine. There might have been a few people in the country who felt inconvenienced because they chose a lifestyle that made their bathroom choice a little bit more difficult, but even among the transgendered I'll bet the vast majority figured out a solution that worked for them and nobody else really cared. But apparently someone was in need of a ****storm so they decided they needed to make an issue of this. I wonder who will ultimately benefit.
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Inherently contradictory. You argue to not to cater to minorities while excusing the intrusive reasons we should? These are linked logics.
 
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