Gay Nightclub mass shooting -- Orlando, Florida

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For unrelated crimes. Nonetheless, this is an interesting development as it reminds us that anyone can become radicalized. Europe has a bigger terror problem than the US because the massive number of alienated Muslim youths who become radical because they want to belong to something. But as long as violent interpretations of religion exists, we can never have perfect security.

The problem in Europe seems to be much worse because of faux-multiculturalism which in fact turns into ghettos and segregation and disenfranchisement. In the US the Muslim population seems much better integrated, but still extremist attitudes seem to be present even there. I don't see any reason why any regular/moderate Muslim should tolerate attitudes like the ones I posted on the first page in their communities and mosques. Those should be called out and condemned on the spot and precisely Muslims are in the best position to do it.

 

[Siro]

Both his father and ex-wife claim he is not religious. Ex-wife said he beat her, is violent and unstable, and her family had to rescue her from him. Father said he saw two men kissing and has been extremely upset about it. FBI briefly interrogated him a few years ago because of a jihad comment he made, apparently, but found nothing to justify surveillance. Perhaps he made the 911 call claiming ISIS affiliation knowing it would intensity the fear. Likely there are many motives combined.

Whatever the reason, it is tragic and sad and horrible.

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If he truly turns out not to have religious motives, then it would have been a lot more productive of him to have come out of the closet. 50+ lives would have bee spared.

No way a straight, secular man, cares this deeply about men kissing each other.

 

[Siro]

The problem in Europe seems to be much worse because of faux-multiculturalism which in fact turns into ghettos and segregation and disenfranchisement. In the US the Muslim population seems much better integrated, but still extremist attitudes seem to be present even there. I don't see any reason why any regular/moderate Muslim should tolerate attitudes like the ones I posted on the first page in their communities and mosques. Those should be called out and condemned on the spot and precisely Muslims are in the best position to do it.

They do. Hell, ISIS "hit list" is full of moderate Western Muslims that they feel undermine their crazy ****ing message.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Oh my God.



That makes it far and beyond the biggest mass-shooting in American history.

I get that ppl get upset when ppl complain about assault rifles-- but you have to understand how much easier it makes it to just spray ammunition with an AR-15 (yes, I realize it was most-likely semi-automatic). I dunno y'all. This is crazy.

Just a minor point, but all AR-15's are semi-automatic.

Awful, awful tragedy. I will never understand how somebody could kill another like this. Just awful.

 

[RandyForRubio]

I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc etc. I'm one of those nasty fundamentalist Christians. I'm what's labeled as a radical Chrisfian. Never, ever, ever have I wanted to kill somebody because I disagree with how they live their life. I don't even want to punch them, verbally abuse them, anything like that. Why is it so hard to just treat a person decently? I can disagree with somebody and still get along with them. It's not actually that hard.

 

[Jazz and Utes]

I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc etc. I'm one of those nasty fundamentalist Christians. I'm what's labeled as a radical Chrisfian. Never, ever, ever have I wanted to kill somebody because I disagree with how they live their life. I don't even want to punch them, verbally abuse them, anything like that. Why is it so hard to just treat a person decently? I can disagree with somebody and still get along with them. It's not actually that hard.

Because you're a reasonable human being that's why. That's what America should be about, believe in what you believe and express your views in a respectful manner with out being loud and condescending about it and also being willing to listen not just hear the other person and even if you still disagree with each other you can still respect that person as a human being.

 

[stitches]

They do. Hell, ISIS "hit list" is full of moderate Western Muslims that they feel undermine their crazy ****ing message.

Being aligned against ISIS is not that terribly hard or noteworthy. Even Al-Quaeda is in a war against ISIS. I know there are plenty of moderate Muslims and reformers speaking against ISIS and their backwards attitudes and they deserve our full support especially having in mind the personal risk they are taking. Something that needs to be pointed out regularly is that Muslims are the most frequent victims of ISIS and it is by a LONG MILE!

My biggest concern though is that religious leaders and community leaders don't do enough to fight against bigoted attitudes as a whole contained in their religions(not necessarily just anti-ISIS rhetoric).

How do you explain mosques inviting speakers who preach how the compassionate thing to do for gays is to kill them and get rid off them? And when asked to comment all they can say is "this is a private event and our speakers have the right to say whatever they want". Sure they have that right, that's not the question here.

There are plenty of polls among Muslim communities in the western world that produce results that are worrying about attitudes towards women, gays, non-believers, apostates, etc.

And don't get me wrong I have almost the same level of contempt for Christian preachers preaching similar messages, but at least with them we've gotten to a place where the worst of them 'just' want the gays not to marry or to get them rounded up and put them in a concentration camp.

 

[stitches]

I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc etc. I'm one of those nasty fundamentalist Christians. I'm what's labeled as a radical Chrisfian. Never, ever, ever have I wanted to kill somebody because I disagree with how they live their life. I don't even want to punch them, verbally abuse them, anything like that. Why is it so hard to just treat a person decently? I can disagree with somebody and still get along with them. It's not actually that hard.

The huge majority of people of any religion don't want to do harm to anybody. They might disagree and not like others very much for their differences and choices but would never go on and kill people. The saddest thing is that we don't need many to produce a great deal of harm.

 

[addictionary]

As a Muslim, I would save one of those gay people's life if it would be worth the wipe out of the entire religious extremists in the world. Gay means happy in English. Insanity. It's not even enough to describe the level of screwed up-ness of this kind of thing. I pray to God that one day good people will unite and wipe the ignorance and violence off the earth.

 

[Jazz and Utes]

I pray to God that one day good people will unite and wipe the ignorance and violence off the earth.

I'm not being condescending but in order to achieve this we need people to actually do something and not just rely on praying to whom ever their god is. Violence and hate can be eradicated, it's not in our DNA as a species to want to kill people, or turn our backs on people. It's usually your upbringing and the messages you hear as a kid turning into a young adult than by the time you can start thinking for yourself your brainwashed into hating a certain group or groups of people that you that you know nothing about.

 

[Boris]

The name Omar Mateen has been floating around.

Is he a Sir?

 

[Boris]

How's this for a stat:


8 mass shootings in Canada in the last 20 years.

7 in America since last Monday

Can someone please adjust this for population size? I am a idiot and cannot figure it out. Still I know Canada is a much safer place to live and repped [MENTION=848]dalamon[/MENTION]. Can you please explain why so many psychos we have verse Canada?

 

[addictionary]

I'm not being condescending but in order to achieve this we need people to actually do something and not just rely on praying to whom ever their god is. Violence and hate can be eradicated, it's not in our DNA as a species to want to kill people, or turn our backs on people. It's usually your upbringing and the messages you hear as a kid turning into a young adult than by the time you can start thinking for yourself your brainwashed into hating a certain group or groups of people that you that you know nothing about.

You are right, there is no good in just sitting on our asses praying. We have to take action every time we face the evil. But as simple folk, we cannot fight them back like they do. I see ignorance as a root for this kind of evil. I'm sure every person can do their best to fight that.

 

[Deleted member 848]

If he truly turns out not to have religious motives, then it would have been a lot more productive of him to have come out of the closet. 50+ lives would have bee spared.

No way a straight, secular man, cares this deeply about men kissing each other.

You're right in saying that The greater Muslim community has a huge Homophobia problem. And it needs to be addressed.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc etc. I'm one of those nasty fundamentalist Christians. I'm what's labeled as a radical Chrisfian. Never, ever, ever have I wanted to kill somebody because I disagree with how they live their life. I don't even want to punch them, verbally abuse them, anything like that. Why is it so hard to just treat a person decently? I can disagree with somebody and still get along with them. It's not actually that hard.

Probably because you're mentally sane tbh

 

[Deleted member 848]

Being aligned against ISIS is not that terribly hard or noteworthy. Even Al-Quaeda is in a war against ISIS. I know there are plenty of moderate Muslims and reformers speaking against ISIS and their backwards attitudes and they deserve our full support especially having in mind the personal risk they are taking. Something that needs to be pointed out regularly is that Muslims are the most frequent victims of ISIS and it is by a LONG MILE!

My biggest concern though is that religious leaders and community leaders don't do enough to fight against bigoted attitudes as a whole contained in their religions(not necessarily just anti-ISIS rhetoric).

How do you explain mosques inviting speakers who preach how the compassionate thing to do for gays is to kill them and get rid off them? And when asked to comment all they can say is "this is a private event and our speakers have the right to say whatever they want". Sure they have that right, that's not the question here.

There are plenty of polls among Muslim communities in the western world that produce results that are worrying about attitudes towards women, gays, non-believers, apostates, etc.

And don't get me wrong I have almost the same level of contempt for Christian preachers preaching similar messages, but at least with them we've gotten to a place where the worst of them 'just' want the gays not to marry or to get them rounded up and put them in a concentration camp.

Lol umm someone has no idea what's going on with gays in Uganda

 

[Deleted member 848]

Those should be called out and condemned on the spot and precisely Muslims are in the best position to do it.

Im sorry but you have to be incredibly ignorant to not think that this is happening.

 

[JimLes]

I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality

You disagree with homosexuality? What the hell does that mean? Can I disagree with people being black or people being Muslim? How about the disabled? Women?

You know what? **** you. **** you and everyone else who spouts this ******** of "I don't approve of who you are but I'm kinda okay with you" and pretends that it doesn't create a culture. That it doesn't lead to homophobia. That it doesn't lead to a guy taking a gun and killing fifty people and wounding another fifty. Because the guy didn't just get like that. You don't just shoot black people or gay people or whoever else. You do it because there's a chunk of society that normalizes hatred of other groups. And yes, those like you hide behind their ******** veneer of "disagreement"(just be honest to yourself and us and say that you think less of gay people) and then pretend that you and so many others looking down on what someone does or who someone is isn't a big deal. It doesn't contribute to anything, and certainly not violence. You just disagree. No biggie.

100 casualties, but this nice man just disagrees with homosexuality. Doesn't want them dead. Just disagrees with them.

 

[Boris]

You are right, there is no good in just sitting on our asses praying. We have to take action every time we face the evil. But as simple folk, we cannot fight them back like they do. I see ignorance as a root for this kind of evil. I'm sure every person can do their best to fight that.

Why cannot we? Honest question. Why can we not take it to those who are so backwards they and there children have no hope? I am not talking only Muslims but North Korea Africa and the bad parts of America. What is wrong with eradicating violent peoples?

 

[stitches]

Lol umm someone has no idea what's going on with gays in Uganda

Oh damn, you are right! Unfortunately! I had almost forgotten about that story. Truly sad. Thanks for reminding me though