BYU - it's time come out of the dark ages.

[colton]

Science and religion is incompatible IMHO.

They can be completely compatible in my opinion. As long as one is content to let each operate in its own sphere--let science answer the scientific questions, and let religion answer the religious questions.

 

[colton]

The issue here, as I see it, is not whether the honor code is good per se (I believe BYU, as a private religious organization has every right to set up and enforce such a code that enforces adherence to religious doctrines, though I'd prefer to see a more charitable application of it at times)but whether it is appropriate to discipline a woman for breaking that code if she reports a case of sexual abuse. That is, instead of providing her succor in her anguish (which seems the Christian thing to do), it piles on anguish on anguish. Somebody who cannot see the uncharitable nature of this practice is, I believe, someone who truly lacks empathy for what these woman are going through.

From a practical perspective, (1) it discourages women from report cases of sexual abuse, which in turn (2) lets sexual abusers (a far more serious 'sin' than fornication or heavy petting one would think)get away with it.

Thus it is both an uncharitable and ineffectual practice that does far more harm than good.

That was the opinion of every single pro-BYU poster in this thread (if I recall correctly), and that's how the university just changed its policy.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

That was the opinion of every single pro-BYU poster in this thread (if I recall correctly), and that's how the university just changed its policy.

I am glad to hear that. It's nice when reasonable people can agree on what's reasonable or not.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

They can be completely compatible in my opinion. As long as one is content to let each operate in its own sphere--let science answer the scientific questions, and let religion answer the religious questions.

Exept they do cross spheres at times. Case in point, BoM Archeology, DNA (BoM claim that Amerinds are of Hebrew descent) Book of Abraham, world-wide flood, age of earth, creation of earth, (unless one is willing to take parts of OT allogorically), virgin births, reanimation of dead etc, healing of sick, etc.

Without too much touble one can find examples in which religious dogma has adapted to incorporate science, one wonders in turn whether the converse is ever true.

 

[green]

That was the opinion of every single pro-BYU poster in this thread (if I recall correctly), and that's how the university just changed its policy.

Has BYU give amnesty to the victims? Last I heard, they were considering it, or it was recommended.

 

[colton]

Has BYU give amnesty to the victims? Last I heard, they were considering it, or it was recommended.

That was one of the recommendations from the committee, and Pres. Worthen said he planned to follow all of the recommendations. So I'd call it a done deal.

 

[colton]

That was one of the recommendations from the committee, and Pres. Worthen said he planned to follow all of the recommendations. So I'd call it a done deal.

Here's some more detail: https://news.byu.edu/news/news-release

Brigham Young University President Kevin J Worthen announced today that the Advisory Council on Campus Response to Sexual Assault has completed its study. The BYU President’s Council has reviewed the Advisory Council’s written report, which the university has made publicly available, and has accepted all of the 23 recommendations.

There are five recommendations the university will implement immediately:

Create a new, full-time Title IX coordinator position to replace the existing part-time Title IX coordinator position.
Create a victim advocate / confidential advisor position.
Create a new, physical space to house the Title IX Office in a location separate from the Honor Code Office.
Ensure that, unless the health or safety of others is at risk, the Title IX Office does not share information with the Honor Code Office about the complainant without the complainant’s consent.
Adopt an amnesty clause.

Because the recommendation regarding amnesty involves a change in policy, the critical components of this clause need to be reviewed by the Student, Faculty and Administrative Advisory Councils before it becomes policy. In the meantime, the university will operate under the amnesty guidelines recommended in the report.

The other four recommendations—and possibly others—will be implemented during this fall semester. More information about these recommendations and others are explained in the full report at news.byu.edu/title-ix.

So the amnesty is approved, and the amnesty recommendations are being used currently, but the specific details of how things will work in the future haven't been completely worked out yet. At least, that's how I read it.

 

[LogGrad98]

Kinda looks like BYU knew they needed to make changes. Sad it took something along these lines to get the changes done. I wonder if anything would have changed if there had not been a report.

 

[green]

Kinda looks like BYU knew they needed to make changes. Sad it took something along these lines to get the changes done. I wonder if anything would have changed if there had not been a report.

This has been my issue all along. BYU should know better. My Church should know better. But, when it comes to social issues, my church, led by a prophet of God, is woefully behind the times over and over again.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Kinda looks like BYU knew they needed to make changes. Sad it took something along these lines to get the changes done. I wonder if anything would have changed if there had not been a report.

While there is much about LDS belief, policies and culture that I find socially regressive and harmful, I do give the Church, and BYU, credit for at least making effort to bring the aforementioned to the 21st century. There was, for example, an article in the SL Tribune about how the Church is revising language in the BoM which referred to women who were raped having given that which was most precious--their chastity (I'm paraphrasing). (It makes one wonder why such passages or language is never applied to men--is not chastity so treasured among men or boys as well??) This reflects more modern understanding of morality that being raped is not the same as losing one's chastity, where the latter has a pejorative connotation.

This is yet another example in which LDS (and religious) belief is being modified by a non-religious understanding of the world. Enlightenment on women's issues IS NOT an example in which dogmatic religion has informed social change but rather the converse. Much like religious dogma never informs science but is inevitably in the opposite direction. If it is the case that religious dogma is constantly in retreat from improved human understanding of science, society, morality, etc. (yes morality, as the above example shows), etc., why is it that at any point in time, so many people have such absolute faith in the veracity of religious dogma?

 

[Gameface]

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/5437526-155/byu-announces-all-campuses-will-now

Brigham Young University announced Friday it has formally adopted an amnesty policy for victims or witnesses of sexual assault, a move it had pledged to make last year after the school came under fire for practices that some said discouraged students from reporting abuse.

Going forward, students who are victims or witnesses will not be referred to the private school's Honor Code Office, and will "not be disciplined by the university for any related honor code violation occurring at or near the time of the reported sexual misconduct unless a person's health or safety is at risk."

Well done, BYU. This is a very good step.

 

[cowhide]

Sorry, just one more comment. In thinking about this more, a large number of rapes in universities are obviously drug & alcohol related. So the real question that you should be asking (green) if the goal to minimize rapes is the paramount consideration, is how do the reduced number of rapes that come from having a culture that doesn't tolerate drug & alcohol use compare to the possibly elevated number of rapes that occur due to the possible unreporting of rapes by students who are afraid of getting kicked out of school if they were raped in a situation where they were acting against the school's rules. And I'd bet that the former VASTLY outweighs the latter. So I'm going to ask you, green, how can you possibly consider sending your daughter to a university that DOESN'T have a zero tolerance policy of drug & alcohol use??

BYU looked the other way for years when Jim McMahon was drinking his way through college. I remember my senior year coming home on New Year's eve with a party going on in my apartment 80 percent of the people there were students and drinking. My apartment was right next to Kinkos, a block away from campus. The Honor code is not needed if you have real honor. Signing a paper doesn't stop a person from doing something if they have no honor. The Honor code is a PR thing BYU uses and is a way for them to kick people out who are not humble enough to repent. There is sex, drugs and booze at BYU and if you think an Honor code is going to stop certain people from breaking it then you are being naive.

 

[colton]

Regardless, there's still way less alcohol use at BYU than 99% of colleges.