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Let us petition the great rally churro GT: Jazz/Spurs

fishonjazz said:
Regarding shelvin mack: he is an average back up point guard. Like neto.

Mack shoots 44% from the field, under 30% from 3, 68% from the line and doesn't get there much. He doesn't get many assists, and his turnovers are kind of high (creating a poor assist to turnover ratio). I think he is probably statistically a poor defender though i could be wrong.

His per 36 numbers. 12.7 points, 3.8 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 2.7 turnovers and 1.3 steals.

Neto shoots 45% from the field, 32% from 3, and 89% from the line. He seems to be a better and more willing passer and seems to be a better defender. (Again I could be wrong)

His per 36 numbers: 10.4 ppg, 3.1 rebounds, 3.5 assists (I'm surprised macks assist numbers are better), 1.6 turnovers, 2.2 steals.


Not much separating the two. I like the toughness of both guys, think they are both pretty confident and both decent leaders.

Honestly I don't care who quin picks to be the backup pg in the playoffs. Neto injury made the decision much easier.
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Shelvin is more clutch and can close out games better Coach sees that, we never see Neto close out games

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Mack does two things pretty well though: floaters and finishing at the basket going to his right. He is someone who can actually put pressure on the defense when he heads towards the basket unlike Exum or Neto. He just sucks at dribbling and doesnt make quick decisions on the ball.

As far as defensively Neto is better at staying with players, but Mack is better at contesting shots and not getting overpowered/shot over. Exum clearly the best defender of the 3.

As far as mind numbing decision making, Exum takes the cake as he makes the worst mistakes. Jumping into the air and passing it to a defender seems to happen regularly. People might get mad for the offense stalling with Mack, but I dont think that issue is that big or entirely on Mack. Neto is probably the best of the 3 at running offense, but if the ball gets stuck in his hands with time running out its pretty awful. Mack is the only one of the 3 who can make anything happen in those unfortunate situations.
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Here's to Jazz winning in the first round.

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UtahJazz32 said:
This is based on his capabilities the last 2 games coming up big and performing lets not fool ourselves and think Neto would have been able to do the same ?

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Coming up big?

The Spurs had basically emptied their bench. Mack didn't score until the end of the third.
He hit two wide open 3s which was good to see.
But he dominated the ball when he was in and had the SAME amount of assists than Exum.

Btw, do you like defense?
 
Et tu Brute said:
Coming up big?

The Spurs had basically emptied their bench. Mack didn't score until the end of the third.
He hit two wide open 3s which was good to see.
But he dominated the ball when he was in and had the SAME amount of assists than Exum.

Btw, do you like defense?
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And how about Mack against gsw? Neto's defense is over rated opposing guards look forward to eating him alive. Answer this ... if neto was so great why did management go after Mack?

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UtahJazz32 said:
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, Neto wasn't a stable starter

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Yeah, and we did peachy with Mack at the helm. Remember how we lost our chance at the playoffs last season? Mack's -20 against the Clippers bench? How about that -8 against the Mavs? Your fanboysm is showing.
 
Lol, really? Neto plugs in defense and Mack offense. They are both decent players who bring something to the team.

Stop hating.
 
UtahJazz32 said:
And how about Mack against gsw? Neto's defense is over rated opposing guards look forward to eating him alive. Answer this ... if neto was so great why did management go after Mack?

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You literally don't care about any metrics that measure defense right?

Neto is ranked 7th amongst pg this year defensively (DRPM).
Hill is ranked 11th.
Exum is ranked 40th
Mack .................... 69th.

Now the only valid/fair argument against these stats is Neto has played incredibly few minutes this year - only about 360. But his 'live' minutes defense was probably even better than his garbage time defense.

Regarding offense - even Shelvin 'McClutch' Mac is ranked 57th vs Neto's 53rd for ORPM.

There are other metrics - and RPM isn't the be all and end all. But it's an indication of how great Mack really is.

I get it. You're a Mack guy. Heck I'm all in on Exum. But expect push-back when you're using your eye test to say that Neto sucks. He has shown improvement and Mack should be the 4th string pg IMO.
 
Stoked said:
Lol, really? Neto plugs in defense and Mack offense. They are both decent players who bring something to the team.

Stop hating.
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I understand this sentiment.
But I think there are valid concerns about Mack's role on this team.

He is a defensive sieve and looks for his own shot a lot on offense.

He is potentially keeping valuable minutes from Exum.

And Q seems to have an 'unhealthy' love of Mack's game - and high tolerance level for his glaring mistakes and shortcomings.


Anyway, these debates can wait for after the playoff run. All for one atm....
 
Et tu Brute said:
I understand this sentiment.
But I think there are valid concerns about Mack's role on this team.

He is a defensive sieve and looks for his own shot a lot on offense.

He is potentially keeping valuable minutes from Exum.

And Q seems to have an 'unhealthy' love of Mack's game - and high tolerance level for his glaring mistakes and shortcomings.


Anyway, these debates can wait for after the playoff run. All for one atm....
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When the Jazz were dealing with so many injuries they needed his ability to score. Now that we are healthy I expect him to take a back seat.

As far as him taking minutes from Exum. I don't see it that way. I see it as Exum failing to take them from Neto and Mack.
 
Stoked said:
When the Jazz were dealing with so many injuries they needed his ability to score. Now that we are healthy I expect him to take a back seat.

As far as him taking minutes from Exum. I don't see it that way. I see it as Exum failing to take them from Neto and Mack.
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Fair assessment of Exum's situation.

But you're missing my insinuation. You're looking for Dante to be alpha male enough to not feel challenged by seasoned pros like Neto and Mack. This is a win now team, and Exum's in a tough spot. He is discovering his game and fit within the team, knowing full well the leash is short.

I think there is a lot of implicit pressure on every move Dante makes on the court. And part of that is having a guy like Mack on the pine ready to take his spot with any and all mistakes.

You and others might think this is weak and spells danger for Dante's future. But the kid has a lot to deal with. 5th pick out of high school in Australia, a missed 2nd year, a top tier team that needs to win now, and veteran point guards breathing down his neck.

Mack is a negative by almost every metric. So is Dante. But most metrics suggest Mack is worse - and not giving Dante Mack's minutes is incredibly short sighted.

I think deep down Utah believe (or fear - given FA considerations) this year might be as good a chance as they might get to win it all. So they would be justified in going all out now.
 
Mack can be frustrating because when he fails he fails on such a grand level... but he's indisputably the best option we have for our backup (splitting the minutes with Exum).
 
The mack vs neto argument is dumb. They are both decent back ups. Not a big gap between the two.
 
Stoked said:
Lol, really? Neto plugs in defense and Mack offense. They are both decent players who bring something to the team.

Stop hating.
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Yep
 
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