We should move on from George Hill

[Saint Cy of JFC]

How is that question relevant?
The point is that the owner of the team gets penalized more money the farther into the tax the team goes. So it's not the same signing mills to 15 million per and hill 25 million per.
Seems obvious

It's the same in terms of being able to sign more talent to the team bud, which is the primary concern among most people here: If we sign Hill to a big contract we can't sign anyone else. I didnt know everyone was so concerned about a billionaire family's pockets.

 

[Miggs]

While we're at it, do we know the exact detail Hill received by the Jazz that was turned down?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Really not in the mood to argue either. Seriously, you're a relatively smart guy, Cy.

Give me the exact moves and deals you'd do this off-season and what our cap number and team would be for next season.

Sign Hill
Sign Hayward
Sign Ingles
Draft players
Maybe make some trades if the Jazz feel they have to shave money or they want some different players

It's not that complicated. Sorry I dont have a magical plan to trade for Kristaps Porzingis or get Kemba Walker out of a hobbled contract year Favors, Rodney Hood coming off a historically bad playoff run on a contract year, a continually injured Burks, and some mid-late first round draft picks.

 

[Miggs]

It's the same in terms of being able to sign more talent to the team bud, which is the primary concern among most people here: If we sign Hill to a big contract we can't sign anyone else. I didnt know everyone was so concerned about a billionaire family's pockets.

I'm concerned because I want to stay within the realm of possibility. If your notions have the Jazz going 15M over the LT three years in a row, well, I just don't think it is that realistic to expect. At all.

 

[♪alt13]

Obviously but I was being generous with those figures for Hayward and Hill (according to cy) and that would thin us out.

The Jazz will have to condense their roster no matter what. Rudy and Hayward alone will make half the cap. The Jazz have the luxury of being able to go over the cap to re-sign their own players (Hill). A luxury that they don't have when trying to sign free agents (lowry). If they try to get better through free agency than the team must get even thinner. Draft, develop, trade, retain. That's what the Jazz can do. They can't chase free agents.

 

[Miggs]

Sign Hill
Sign Hayward
Sign Ingles
Draft players
Maybe make some trades if the Jazz feel they have to shave money or they want some different players

It's not that complicated. Sorry I dont have a magical plan to trade for Kristaps Porzingis or get Kemba Walker out of a hobbled contract year Favors, Rodney Hood coming off a historically bad playoff run on a contract year, a continually injured Burks, and some mid-late first round draft picks.

With deals. You know. The actual first year salaries for each. It's sort of important. And yet you continue to dance around these details.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm concerned because I want to stay within the realm of possibility. If your notions have the Jazz going 15M over the LT three years in a row, well, I just don't think it is that realistic to expect. At all.

Well I'm sorry. Unless I know the Millers financial wishes for the Jazz I cant begin to know their opinions on paying the LT.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

With deals. You know. The actual first year salaries for each. It's sort of important. And yet you continue to dance around these details.

Because I dont give a **** about the details dude. That is the best plan and it's what the Jazz are going to try to do.

 

[Miggs]

The Jazz will have to condense their roster no matter what. Rudy and Hayward alone will make half the cap. The Jazz have the luxury of being able to go over the cap to re-sign their own players (Hill). A luxury that they don't have when trying to sign free agents (lowry). If they try to get better through free agency than the team must get even thinner. Draft, dwvelop, trade, retain. That's what the Jazz can do. They can't chase free agents.

It depends on the level of free agents but I don't disagree. Thank you for a solid post without the unnecessary arguing.

 

[Miggs]

Weak, Cy. Even for you.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Getting a concussion from someone elbowing you in the face doesn't prove that you are injury prone. It proves that someone elbowed you in the face.

Stupid Hill and his thin walled skull. I'd bet every poster here trashing him for being injury prone could take 10 elbows to the head and not be phased. Their skulls are probably 50 times thicker.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Jazz will have to condense their roster no matter what. Rudy and Hayward alone will make half the cap. The Jazz have the luxury of being able to go over the cap to re-sign their own players (Hill). A luxury that they don't have when trying to sign free agents (lowry). If they try to get better through free agency than the team must get even thinner. Draft, develop, trade, retain. That's what the Jazz can do. They can't chase free agents.

Yup. The Jazz got a big 3 of Hayward/Gobert/Hill.

Hope someone better than Hill steps up from internal development (Exum/Hill/Lyles/New Draft Picks) so you can replace Hill down the line. Rinse/wash/repeat

 

[LogGrad98]

I just dont think you let George Hill walk if you can re-sign him for anything south of 30,000,000. Just can't let an asset like him go. If the Jazz lose him and dont recoup of value, we are a worse team next year.

So 29,999,999 is acceptable?

I think Hill is worth it for a contract in the mid-teens (15 to maybe 18 at the high end). But not for more than 3 years or so, which are terms he will not want. If nothing else he can be a mentor for Exum, who showed some real promise in that last series. I think that was a break-out moment of sorts for Exum. Hopefully it helps his confidence and gets him more used to the speed of the game. But either way we need a solid #1 with Exum as the #2 until such time as Exum shows he deserves the #1 spot. Hill could fit that bill, but so could a number of other guys.

 

[♪alt13]

How is that question relevant?
The point is that the owner of the team gets penalized more money the farther into the tax the team goes. So it's not the same signing mills to 15 million per and hill 25 million per.
Seems obvious

The Jazz would have to drop salary to 85 m just to offer Mills 15 million and there is no guarantee that he takes it. The Jazz don't have to drop any salary to make Hill an offer.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Stupid Hill and his thin walled skull. I'd bet every poster here trashing him for being injury prone could take 10 elbows to the head and not be phased. Their skulls are probably 50 times thicker.

Elbow from a guy who weighs 260+ lbs.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

So 29,999,999 is acceptable?

I think Hill is worth it for a contract in the mid-teens (15 to maybe 18 at the high end). But not for more than 3 years or so, which are terms he will not want. If nothing else he can be a mentor for Exum, who showed some real promise in that last series. I think that was a break-out moment of sorts for Exum. Hopefully it helps his confidence and gets him more used to the speed of the game. But either way we need a solid #1 with Exum as the #2 until such time as Exum shows he deserves the #1 spot. Hill could fit that bill, but so could a number of other guys.

My thing with Hill is I would be more willing to overpay a bit more if he is just on a 3 year contract. If it's 4 years I would want something a bit closer to what I perceive as his value (25,000,000 a year).

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm concerned because I want to stay within the realm of possibility. If your notions have the Jazz going 15M over the LT three years in a row, well, I just don't think it is that realistic to expect. At all.

Not only is it nor realistic to expect, it is fatal to future growth. The only way this would be justified is if we could land multiple all-stars in the deal. If we could somehow get George here on longer than a 1-year rental AND CP3 or Butler, for example, well hell that would be worth some LT to make multiple championship runs. I think a core of CP3, Butler, Hayward, and Gobert would justify it and net us a few rings. But other than a pie in the sky scenario like that going into the luxury tax is a sure-fire way to kill the franchise for seasons to come.

 

[Miggs]

I don't know. Maybe Cy is right. Maybe one of the Dubs studs leaves in the next three years and/or one gets hurt, and/or our guys develop more than expected.

****.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't know. Maybe Cy is right. Maybe one of the Dubs studs leaves in the next three years and/or one gets hurt, and/or our guys develop more than expected.

****.

For teh Jazz to ever win a ring with this core there will have to be a big element of luck. If we lose Hill that need for luck doubles/triples.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Weak, Cy. Even for you.

Sorry I'm not drawing out a detailed financial plan just for you wessy poo.