Dante Exum: The Future is Not Now

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm not talking about any other picks. I'm talking about your 'logic' behind taking someone early in a draft when you can get him later. Makes no sense. If you KNOW you can get him late in the 1st round, then why take him with a top 10 pick?

How can a gm KNOW for sure? That's a lot of projecting to rely on.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Dali]

You might pick 10 duds/busts via drafting over the years but it only takes 1 or 2 great picks to build a team around, as franchise players, and that's where Utah is now.

Rudy is a jazz player, who happens to be a franchise player and still improving.

Whether it was shrewd drafting or dumb luck that Rudy is here doesn't worry me in the slightest, and I definitely give credit where credit is due.

Enjoy the team that has been constructed here, and hope it stays in one piece (commit Gordon, Doo eet!).

 

[elan_prodigy]

How can a gm KNOW for sure? That's a lot of projecting to rely on.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app

Its not an science but a GM doing their due diligence has a 90% understanding of the needs of each franchise and whos taking who.

 

[elan_prodigy]

Go watch draft day if you still don't understand the concept

 

[Ron Mexico]

You going to have to provide links to this malarkey. DL has drafted plenty of sub-par athletes while in Utah, Hood and Lyles come to mind. Just because he has drafted some long and athletic players doesnt mean he isn't prone to falling for a guy like Trey Burke. If all you have to go on is "After Trey Burke he hasn't drafted anyone undersized so that means he couldnt possibly have wanted Trey Burke" then cmon man. I dont even know how you can possibly say who Snyder wanted when he was probably just getting done with his Euroleague season when those guys were drafted.

The day off the draft DL gave Corbin "credit" multiple times for pushing for Burke. I'm sure you can Google it if you can't remember it. O Conner was also still very much apart of that draft and in charge. He was given credit for helping make the move to move up.

 

[silesian]

What? I'm pretty sure that was never reported. It was reported the Corbin lobbied for the pick, but I find it very hard to believe DL did it because Corbin wanted it to happen. It felt more like DL was just throwing Corbin a bone so he could look good.

You are right, it wasn't reported, but DL's body language, tone of voice and him crediting Ty for the Burke pick, all add up to the fact that he was not fully behind Burke.

It seems pretty clear that DL had not fully consolidated his power in Utah, O'Conner was still a major influencer, the front office wanted to have Ty's backing for the draft, and the Jazz are an organization that strives for consensus, alignment and harmony. DL was not yet on firm footing like he is now.

All that said, I believe (but cannot prove) that DL was not a Burke-believer.

 

[silesian]

Its not an science but a GM doing their due diligence has a 90% understanding of the needs of each franchise and whos taking who.

I believe this <50%. There is a massive amount of disinformation that is out there. Some GMs share with others, as long as they believe that the information will not harm their draft.

I'd love to see a team's "market board" and compare it to the "actual draft" and I think you would not see anywhere near 90% accuracy, even by the best GMs.

 

[LogGrad98]

You are right, it wasn't reported, but DL's body language, tone of voice and him crediting Ty for the Burke pick, all add up to the fact that he was not fully behind Burke.

It seems pretty clear that DL had not fully consolidated his power in Utah, O'Conner was still a major influencer, the front office wanted to have Ty's backing for the draft, and the Jazz are an organization that strives for consensus, alignment and harmony. DL was not yet on firm footing like he is now.

All that said, I believe (but cannot prove) that DL was not a Burke-believer.

A Burliever?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The day off the draft DL gave Corbin "credit" multiple times for pushing for Burke. I'm sure you can Google it if you can't remember it. O Conner was also still very much apart of that draft and in charge. He was given credit for helping make the move to move up.

Yes, but you can't possibly be reading that as DL saying "this wasn't my pick" as much as it was "Im trying to give Corbin credit here since the fanbase makes fun of him constantly".

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You are right, it wasn't reported, but DL's body language, tone of voice and him crediting Ty for the Burke pick, all add up to the fact that he was not fully behind Burke.

It seems pretty clear that DL had not fully consolidated his power in Utah, O'Conner was still a major influencer, the front office wanted to have Ty's backing for the draft, and the Jazz are an organization that strives for consensus, alignment and harmony. DL was not yet on firm footing like he is now.

All that said, I believe (but cannot prove) that DL was not a Burke-believer.

There is no way in ****ing hell anyone can make a logical reason why the FO was listening to Tyrone Corbin in the last year of his contract when it was abundantly obvious he was not going to be brought back. Just stop. It was DL trying to give Corbin a bone and make him look good. If they believed in Corbin's ability so much and wanted his "backing" they would have extended Corbin like they have done Snyder.

This just pure rubbish and DL protecting if you read it as DL was forced into a pick. He was the GM, he was wearing the big boy pants. There is no way the Jazz are trading two picks to go up in the draft if DL isnt completely on board.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I guess you can. I don't see any reason to repeatedly give others credit except to separate yourself from the decision.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I guess you can. I don't see any reason to repeatedly give others credit except to separate yourself from the decision.

Because Corbin was getting dragged through the dirt by fans. You may have some revisionist history, but people loved this pick when it happened. When DL gave Corbin the credit, it made Corbin look better to the fans. That's all it was, the dude throwing Corbin a bone.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Because Corbin was getting dragged through the dirt by fans. You may have some revisionist history, but people loved this pick when it happened. When DL gave Corbin the credit, it made Corbin look better to the fans. That's all it was, the dude throwing Corbin a bone.

I disagree but I can see where you are coming from.

I was at the arena for the pick and draft party. Most people were pretty happy about the pick. I was not but I was in the minority there. Cheering was quite loud when they announced the trade. I got up and left irritated. That was definitely Corbin's pick based on what everyone said during and after. O'Conner backed his coach on the pick.

Either way I'm glad the team bought a pick so DL could get the guy he really wanted. Anytime you pick the best player or maybe 2nd best from a draft you did something very right. DL draft record isn't perfect but he has had some good picks and I would rank him pretty high compared to other GM's based on his moves.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I disagree but I can see where you are coming from.

I was at the arena for the pick and draft party. Most people were pretty happy about the pick. I was not but I was in the minority there. Cheering was quite loud when they announced the trade. I got up and left irritated. That was definitely Corbin's pick based on what everyone said during and after. O'Conner backed his coach on the pick.

Either way I'm glad the team bought a pick so DL could get the guy he really wanted. Anytime you pick the best player or maybe 2nd best from a draft you did something very right. DL draft record isn't perfect but he has had some good picks and I would rank him pretty high compared to other GM's based on his moves.

DL is terrible in the lottery.

DL has made some great picks in the 20's.

It is what it is. Let's stop protecting DL's mistakes and attributing them to a head coach, because that is lol.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

DL is terrible in the lottery.

DL has made some great picks in the 20's.

It is what it is. Let's stop protecting DL's mistakes and attributing them to a head coach, because that is lol.

I think either way (being forced into the pick be circumstances of the transition of power, or backing a coach, or making the pick himself) it is bad GM-ing. What little evidence there was did hint at Corbin being a big part of the decision going in to his last year. The organization was run differently under KOC and it seems like it took a while for DL to make a culture change. I'm sure he would have loved to have canned Corbin immediately, and done everything his way. It seemed like there were 2-3 transition years, which is a little bit unusual.

I remember being a little bit annoyed with how weak DL was at first in implementing what he believed in. But from what we've learned since then it seems like he had to earn the trust of the organization to pull them into modernity.

To me, the jury is definitely still out on DL's lottery drafting ability. A couple picks that haven't even developed all the way, and some picks with questionable responsibility make it hard to accurately judge.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think either way (being forced into the pick be circumstances of the transition of power, or backing a coach, or making the pick himself) it is bad GM-ing. What little evidence there was did hint at Corbin being a big part of the decision going in to his last year. The organization was run differently under KOC and it seems like it took a while for DL to make a culture change. I'm sure he would have loved to have canned Corbin immediately, and done everything his way. It seemed like there were 2-3 transition years, which is a little bit unusual.

I remember being a little bit annoyed with how weak DL was at first in implementing what he believed in. But from what we've learned since then it seems like he had to earn the trust of the organization to pull them into modernity.

To me, the jury is definitely still out on DL's lottery drafting ability. A couple picks that haven't even developed all the way, and some picks with questionable responsibility make it hard to accurately judge.

Culture change? The culture is the same IMO. The Jazz are never going to fire a coach unless he makes some terrible public decisions. The culture is professionalism and fairness IMO.

One thing about DL is I think he is too quick to overreact to his past mistakes.

He ****ed up Hayward's 1st big contract and let him go shopping when he should have secured him so the next year he closed the deal quick with Burks when it wasnt even necessary.

He drafted Burke then the next season he realized he ****ed up by taking a small player with a low athletic ceiling so he went with the polar opposite and took Exum, a player with little basketball accomplishments and a huge athletic and physical ceiling. He recognized he played it too safe with Burke then shot for the moon with Exum.

He saw the Jazz needed a stretch 4 after playing non-stretch 4's exclusively in Favors and Booker, so he reached for a guy who couldn't even shoot.

He seems to try too hard to follow trends instead of just getting the best player ever since the Burke failure. The only time he has succeeded was the late first round with Hood/Gobert. Hood was a BPA who dropped and Gobert was an outlier length prospect, but his type of player wasnt really trendy ATM he was drafted.

 

[Ron Mexico]

DL is terrible in the lottery.

DL has made some great picks in the 20's.

It is what it is. Let's stop protecting DL's mistakes and attributing them to a head coach, because that is lol.

Nah, Burke was a bad pick but the rest have been fine, and I don't blame him for that at all that's on KOC and Corbin, or the owners for backing them over DL.

I would still pick Exum. I would still trade for Hill. Those were good moves not terrible. Lyle's might be a bad pick but it's way way too early to say that.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

Culture change? The culture is the same IMO. The Jazz are never going to fire a coach unless he makes some terrible public decisions. The culture is professionalism and fairness IMO.

One thing about DL is I think he is too quick to overreact to his past mistakes.

He ****ed up Hayward's 1st big contract and let him go shopping when he should have secured him so the next year he closed the deal quick with Burks when it wasnt even necessary.

He drafted Burke then the next season he realized he ****ed up by taking a small player with a low athletic ceiling so he went with the polar opposite and took Exum, a player with little basketball accomplishments and a huge athletic and physical ceiling. He recognized he played it too safe with Burke then shot for the moon with Exum.

He saw the Jazz needed a stretch 4 after playing non-stretch 4's exclusively in Favors and Booker, so he reached for a guy who couldn't even shoot.

He seems to try too hard to follow trends instead of just getting the best player ever since the Burke failure. The only time he has succeeded was the late first round with Hood/Gobert. Hood was a BPA who dropped and Gobert was an outlier length prospect, but his type of player wasnt really trendy ATM he was drafted.

I think the Exum pick fell in their lap. I'm pretty sure he had been mocked to go #4 by pretty much everyone and we were all shocked that he was still there. I guess I can see what you are saying, but I think you are still kind of revising how much influence KOC had in all those early decisions. I think once DL hired Quin he has been running the show solo (with a bit of input from KOC occasionally) before that it seemed much more like a 50-50 setup to me.

But I definitely think he has changed the culture from one that was frankly a bit antagonistic toward modern basketball, spending money on upgrading player experiences, dealing with FA's in wrote fashion, dealing with the media, not having an expanded coaching staff and scouting department, and on down the line. He definitely kept some of the good parts of the Jazz culture, but I see a huge change from the end of the KOC regime.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think the Exum pick fell in their lap. I'm pretty sure he had been mocked to go #4 by pretty much everyone and we were all shocked that he was still there. I guess I can see what you are saying, but I think you are still kind of revising how much influence KOC had in all those early decisions. I think once DL hired Quin he has been running the show solo (with a bit of input from KOC occasionally) before that it seemed much more like a 50-50 setup to me.

But I definitely think he has changed the culture from one that was frankly a bit antagonistic toward modern basketball, spending money on upgrading player experiences, dealing with FA's in wrote fashion, dealing with the media, not having an expanded coaching staff and scouting department, and on down the line. He definitely kept some of the good parts of the Jazz culture, but I see a huge change from the end of the KOC regime.

There is a lot more input in the draft than just DL/KOC. Everyone has input I'm sure, but at the end of the day the decision is in the hands of the guy with the GM title. If you forgot, DL also gave Jerry Sloan credit for Rudy Gobert, saying that Jerry said Rudy had the biggest motor for a big guy he had ever seen in a workout.

DL basically deflected credit for each of his picks to Corbin and Sloan. He thought he destroyed that draft and wanted to give everyone credit.

 

[green]

I'm not talking about any other picks. I'm talking about your 'logic' behind taking someone early in a draft when you can get him later. Makes no sense. If you KNOW you can get him late in the 1st round, then why take him with a top 10 pick?

Wait, wait, wait. You are Lindsey. You have 12 and 14. You think Gobert is a top 10 player.

So, you trade up to 9, then don't draft Gobert?

Especially when you DONT have anothe first round pick?

And you HOPE you can get back into the first round and you HOPE no one else drafts him so you can get your top 10 talent later?

Lol.