Exum Putting In Some Work

[Douchebag K]

I don't really know what you mean by saying it was over the top. The reason why I used that phrase is because Dennis Lindsey used it to describe Ingles. Ingles doesn't have an agenda when he's out on the floor. He takes what the defense gives him and makes the right play.

Dante is not there as a player. He doesn't read the game well, and that is troubling for a player who isn't good enough to force himself on the defense. The reason why he disappears so easily and has ugly moments with the ball is because he commits to what he's doing before it happens. There's not a whole lot of read and react to his game. He has tunnel vision.

He is inexperienced, and he will get better, but you can only improve so much. His current skill and experience levels are huge obstacles right now.

for an inexperienced player he's actually a pretty good passer. There's no doubt his lack of playing 5 on 5 is a huge deal at the moment. His rookie season he was rightly criticized for always wanting to pass, now this year it's probably that he always tried to take it to the basket ? Saying that he always plays with an agenda makes it sound like he's always trying to get his stats which is certainly not the case. He's trying to figure out how he can be effective which with his current skill set isn't that much ! His pre-committing to a move has been a big problem but i would hardly call it playing with an agenda. And of course Jingles plays with no agenda, firstly he has to with his skill set, and he's had 10-11 years of playing a lot of high quality professional basketball to learn.

and as for "you can only improve so much" would you have applied that to Gordon and Rudy 3-4 years ago ?

 

[KqWIN]

for an inexperienced player he's actually a pretty good passer. There's no doubt his lack of playing 5 on 5 is a huge deal at the moment. His rookie season he was rightly criticized for always wanting to pass, now this year it's probably that he always tried to take it to the basket ? Saying that he always plays with an agenda makes it sound like he's always trying to get his stats which is certainly not the case. He's trying to figure out how he can be effective which with his current skill set isn't that much ! His pre-committing to a move has been a big problem but i would hardly call it playing with an agenda. And of course Jingles plays with no agenda, firstly he has to with his skill set, and he's had 10-11 years of playing a lot of high quality professional basketball to learn.

and as for "you can only improve so much" would you have applied that to Gordon and Rudy 3-4 years ago ?

That's not at all what I mean by agenda. What I mean is that he can't make decisions on the fly. He makes them beforehand, and it's not because he sees the game before it happens. When he disappears, it's because he's trying to not mess up. When he's making ugly turnovers, it's because he's committed to making a play even when it's not there. The game doesn't come to him.

As far as his experience, I know he doesn't have much. I'm not attacking Dante, I'm just giving my opinion on what I see. If he's bad at something he needs to improve upon it regardless of why he's bad at it. It's not enough to be good for an inexperienced player. This is the NBA, you need to be good an NBA player.

If everyone improved as much as Gordon and Rudy, they wouldn't be special players...because they certainly weren't special when they started out. It's not impossible for Dante to get there, but the improvement that those two made is not typical. The players who are most likely to improve from point A to point B are the ones whose point A's begin closer to point B. It's not impossible for him to be a great player, but he's certainly behind if he wants to get there. He needs to put in a lot of work just to establish himself as a rotation player. That needs to happen before we even think of him as an All Star or All NBA player.

 

[Douchebag K]

That's not at all what I mean by agenda. What I mean is that he can't make decisions on the fly. He makes them beforehand, and it's not because he sees the game before it happens. When he disappears, it's because he's trying to not mess up. When he's making ugly turnovers, it's because he's committed to making a play even when it's not there. The game doesn't come to him.

As far as his experience, I know he doesn't have much. I'm not attacking Dante, I'm just giving my opinion on what I see. If he's bad at something he needs to improve upon it regardless of why he's bad at it. It's not enough to be good for an inexperienced player. This is the NBA, you need to be good an NBA player.

If everyone improved as much as Gordon and Rudy, they wouldn't be special players...because they certainly weren't special when they started out. It's not impossible for Dante to get there, but the improvement that those two made is not typical. The players who are most likely to improve from point A to point B are the ones whose point A's begin closer to point B. It's not impossible for him to be a great player, but he's certainly behind if he wants to get there. He needs to put in a lot of work just to establish himself as a rotation player. That needs to happen before we even think of him as an All Star or All NBA player.

I just think agenda was the wrong word to use. He just lacks a lot of experience in reading games involving 10 players on the court and is indecisive or overcomittal in too many plays.
Even contemplating thinking of him as an all star is the last thing anyone should think about. Just being an average starter would be fine. It's just such a bummer about the injury cause i think we would have run with him as the starter in 15-16 and he could have played through a lot of his garbage and really kicked on.

I still think that at a certain point when his skill develops and he gets enough experience and confidence he could be the type of guy who really takes off to a much higher level in a short space of time.

 

[Boris]

I wonder how much work Westbrook or even CP3 or George or Butler are putting in. 2018 gonna be sick!

 

[elan_prodigy]

I don't really know what you mean by saying it was over the top. The reason why I used that phrase is because Dennis Lindsey used it to describe Ingles. Ingles doesn't have an agenda when he's out on the floor. He takes what the defense gives him and makes the right play.

Dante is not there as a player. He doesn't read the game well, and that is troubling for a player who isn't good enough to force himself on the defense. The reason why he disappears so easily and has ugly moments with the ball is because he commits to what he's doing before it happens. There's not a whole lot of read and react to his game. He has tunnel vision.

He is inexperienced, and he will get better, but you can only improve so much. His current skill and experience levels are huge obstacles right now.

Rubbish. The game will slow down for Exum, he just needs minutes.

 

[elan_prodigy]

I just think agenda was the wrong word to use. He just lacks a lot of experience in reading games involving 10 players on the court and is indecisive or overcomittal in too many plays.
Even contemplating thinking of him as an all star is the last thing anyone should think about. Just being an average starter would be fine. It's just such a bummer about the injury cause i think we would have run with him as the starter in 15-16 and he could have played through a lot of his garbage and really kicked on.

I still think that at a certain point when his skill develops and he gets enough experience and confidence he could be the type of guy who really takes off to a much higher level in a short space of time.

I think most of us agree that the short leash Dante has been playing with has also contributed to his indecisiveness.

 

[Douchebag K]

I think most of us agree that the short leash Dante has been playing with has also contributed to his indecisiveness.

sure. It's like when your missus is nagging you while you're driving, you end up missing turns and making dumb mistakes that you wouldn't if she wasn't whining in your ear and distracting you

 

[KqWIN]

I just think agenda was the wrong word to use. He just lacks a lot of experience in reading games involving 10 players on the court and is indecisive or overcomittal in too many plays.
Even contemplating thinking of him as an all star is the last thing anyone should think about. Just being an average starter would be fine. It's just such a bummer about the injury cause i think we would have run with him as the starter in 15-16 and he could have played through a lot of his garbage and really kicked on.

I still think that at a certain point when his skill develops and he gets enough experience and confidence he could be the type of guy who really takes off to a much higher level in a short space of time.

I think agenda was the perfect way to use, because it is the exact way that the GM described another player. That, on top of his low skill level, is what is limiting him on the offensive end. He needs to improve upon his decision making ability and his skill level if he wants to see the floor. At some point he needs to be responsible for his development. Opportunity will come if he gets better.

Don't forget about the defensive end either. The shooting and ball handling may never get there, but his defense has to be good if he's going to make it in this league. His footwork and activity in the passing lanes need to improve as well.

 

[KqWIN]

I think most of us agree that the short leash Dante has been playing with has also contributed to his indecisiveness.

I think the bigger problem is decision making...not indecisiveness.

 

[sepanol]

I know its not the popular thought but if George Hill doesnt sign I'd like Exum to start. Draft another PG possibly, and keep Neto as 3rd string.

In other words I wont be devastated if Hill doesnt resign. I like Hill, but I worry about his durability, cost, and blocking Exum's development.

Although, Exum wasnt without flaws in the 2nd half I liked his game, and noticed his improvements.

Draft Jawun Evans, if you wanna start Exum.
But in that case we should make a majör addition to another position. Kevin Love maybe. Or a huge upgrade over Rodney like J. Butler.

We cant expect Favors and Hood to just come out and play like all star after such a bad year.

 

[sepanol]

I wonder how much work Westbrook or even CP3 or George or Butler are putting in. 2018 gonna be sick!

Nah, it is gonna be another incompetitive playoffs GSW domination year

 

[Douchebag K]

I think agenda was the perfect way to use, because it is the exact way that the GM described another player. That, on top of his low skill level, is what is limiting him on the offensive end. He needs to improve upon his decision making ability and his skill level if he wants to see the floor. At some point he needs to be responsible for his development. Opportunity will come if he gets better.

Don't forget about the defensive end either. The shooting and ball handling may never get there, but his defense has to be good if he's going to make it in this league. His footwork and activity in the passing lanes need to improve as well.

yet the Jazz drafted him know he was the rawest of raw projects ... and at some point they just have to play him a little more ? You can't improve court vision / understanding the flow of games without playing in games. Or trade him.

 

[Revolution 9]

Starting Exum next year would be taking a big step back. Start him when he's good enough to start, or if you have no other choice.

Like in his rookie year when we went on a big run to end the season....mmm

 

[Et tu Brute]

Is that possible? Of course it is. Exum becoming a stud is not the only path to challenging the Warriors.

It would be great if Exum became a stud but I'm not foolish enough to think that is the only way. That's what your question implies.

I think it actually might be the only way.

The Jazz lack a penetrator who can threaten the rim and get to the line.

They also need someone that can dwarf Curry and stay ahead of him. Also, he is the perfect switch defender. He could develop in a way that means he could switch onto KD and be a significant impediment.

How many players do you know that have that possible ceiling?

 

[Et tu Brute]

lol, not sure if serious. Why would our possibility of challenging Warriors depend on Exum? He is so irrelevant to our challenge that to even mention him as some kind of important piece is a joke. If anything having healthy Hill or other quality PG and Rudy being healthy would be way more important than whatever progress Exum will make.

I think what you say is definitely conceivable based on the evidence to date.


I also think your assessment is short sighted based on the evidence to date.

 

[Et tu Brute]

The PG/Wing argument is not important. If Dante is the starting PG and still sucks at handling the ball, he's barely going to have the ball. If he improves his handle he'll get the all more regardless of his position.

Dante will get the ball more when he's better with the ball. It wasn't beneficial to have him with the ball versus anyone else. There wasn't a wing or guard on roster that he was a better ball handler than last season. He needs to put a ton of work in at the gym to improve his handle, but he also needs to show some game sense. Dante doesn't seem to have a great feel for the game. He always plays with an agenda, and I don't mean that in a good way.

Let it go Trey.

 

[Et tu Brute]

I don't really know what you mean by saying it was over the top. The reason why I used that phrase is because Dennis Lindsey used it to describe Ingles. Ingles doesn't have an agenda when he's out on the floor. He takes what the defense gives him and makes the right play.

Dante is not there as a player. He doesn't read the game well, and that is troubling for a player who isn't good enough to force himself on the defense. The reason why he disappears so easily and has ugly moments with the ball is because he commits to what he's doing before it happens. There's not a whole lot of read and react to his game. He has tunnel vision.

He is inexperienced, and he will get better, but you can only improve so much. His current skill and experience levels are huge obstacles right now.

I am a huge Ingles fan.

But he is not infallible with his body language.
He constantly throws his arms up in frustration when a teammate doesn't make the 'right' play. Go back and watch Dante's dunk in Game 4 vs Warriors. Ingles just about berates 'little brother' Dante for not passing him the pill. Probably just treating him the same way as the coaching staff. Dunno.

Dante's body language and actions towards his teammates, opponents and refs is impeccable.

 

[elan_prodigy]

I think it actually might be the only way.

The Jazz lack a penetrator who can threaten the rim and get to the line.

They also need someone that can dwarf Curry and stay ahead of him. Also, he is the perfect switch defender. He could develop in a way that means he could switch onto KD and be a significant impediment.

How many players do you know that have that possible ceiling?

I must admit, I've always thought the same.

As much as people doubt Exum's ability, imo him reaching his 'potential' is the key to this team reaching it's potential.

I don't want to take away anything from any of the other players but Dante has a very unique skill set (along with Rudy) and the key with beating GS is locking them down at the point of attack and taking their 2 x MVP out of his rhythm.

I know it may sound ridiculous to suggest a guy that is basically currently out of our rotation is so vital but potential is potential. Just gotta believe yo.

 

[Et tu Brute]

That's not at all what I mean by agenda. What I mean is that he can't make decisions on the fly. He makes them beforehand, and it's not because he sees the game before it happens. When he disappears, it's because he's trying to not mess up. When he's making ugly turnovers, it's because he's committed to making a play even when it's not there. The game doesn't come to him.

As far as his experience, I know he doesn't have much. I'm not attacking Dante, I'm just giving my opinion on what I see. If he's bad at something he needs to improve upon it regardless of why he's bad at it. It's not enough to be good for an inexperienced player. This is the NBA, you need to be good an NBA player.

If everyone improved as much as Gordon and Rudy, they wouldn't be special players...because they certainly weren't special when they started out. It's not impossible for Dante to get there, but the improvement that those two made is not typical. The players who are most likely to improve from point A to point B are the ones whose point A's begin closer to point B. It's not impossible for him to be a great player, but he's certainly behind if he wants to get there. He needs to put in a lot of work just to establish himself as a rotation player. That needs to happen before we even think of him as an All Star or All NBA player.

You must hate elite speed, length, athleticism, defense and a team first mindset.

Cause if you liked any of them you would be more optimistic.

 

[MVP]

You must hate elite speed, length, athleticism, defense and a team first mindset.

Cause if you liked any of them you would be more optimistic.

There is nothing elite about Exum's athleticism, length or mindset. He has elite first step, that's it.