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Panhandling Challenge

My dad's just the giving type and gets enjoyment by helping people out, me on the other hand think of panhandlers as scum and have no problem admitting it and telling them to **** off if they ask me for anything.
I'm on the fence. I think some of them really are just ****ed in life due to circumstances outside of their control and need help from society.

And some are scum. Hard to distinguish though. I have given them gloves and hats in winter when I see a sad cold looking sob on the freeway off ramp. They generally seem really grateful when I have done this.

Also I have went downtown and helped serve thanksgiving dinner to the homeless a few times. Makes me really grateful to not be in their shoes.
 
I'm on the fence. I think some of them really are just ****ed in life due to circumstances outside of their control and need help from society.

And some are scum. Hard to distinguish though. I have given them gloves and hats in winter when I see a sad cold looking sob on the freeway off ramp. They generally seem really grateful when I have done this.

Also I have went downtown and helped serve thanksgiving dinner to the homeless a few times. Makes me really grateful to not be in their shoes.

That's my dilemma. I know some really do need help. I also know some use it as a full time job. I reserve judgement and give to what I feel are well run organizations.
 
I know some need help. I don't think handing them a buck or two as you pass by is the way to help, at all.

I think giving to panhandlers is done more for the benefit of the giver to alleviate their sense of guilt or to make them feel like they are good person when doing that has nothing to do at all with being a good person.

I think panhandlers make spaces seem more hostile to women and children and even just a man walking by himself. They are taking those public spaces away from their intended use and turning them into panhandling spaces. I haven't seen it much in Salt Lake but in other parts of the country I have seen very aggressive panhandling. That can be downright scary for anyone, like you've got to pay the toll to walk past or you'll be verbally and possibly physically assaulted.

The more panhandling works as a way to get money the more you will see people panhandling, the more the premium spots will be contended over, the more aggressive the panhandling will become. If profitable enough you'll see people doing it as a profession over working a low paying job. But it'll also be something your average junkie will be more prone to spending time doing. This might be someone who lives with people who support them insofar as giving them a place to live, but panhandling is how they get their drug money, how they connect with other junkies.

Then there's just the fact that I don't think a string of cars needs to miss their turn signal getting off the freeway because someone wants to give a person a couple bucks while we all wait.

To me the bottom line is that if panhandling didn't work (no one ever gave to panhandlers) then the people doing it now who are truly in need would turn to other forms of assistance. And if we supported those other forms of assistance instead of giving to panhandlers we'd have a safer more effective form of care. People wouldn't be standing on the corners of our off-ramps. People wouldn't be harassing us as we walk through high foot traffic areas.

By giving to panhandlers you are contributing to a problem and not helping to solve homelessness or poverty at all, not even really helping to provide comfort for the homeless and needy in any meaningful way. You're just paying for your daily "I'm a good person" fix and hooking an alcoholic or junkie up with part of their next fix.
 
Wait, is the person who challenged you going with you? If so, I missed that.

Yeah, her challenge was that I spend a day with her panhandling. I don't really know anything about who she is.

Here is her post

GatorGirl43 Jared Young 5 days ago
You are seriously misinformed. Email me, and I will take a day off work and we can panhandle for a day together and publicize how much money we made. We can film it and put it up on Youtube as an educational experience for the both of us. This idea that panhandling is a profit center, is nothing more than a rationale for your prejudice. But if you take me up on my offer, I am willing to rethink my point of view. Are you? If we panhandle and find ourselves dining on cordon bleu and a lovely Cabernet in a box under the freeway, then I will publicly state that I was wrong and you were right.

Here is my response

I don't know what you think I mean by a relatively comfortable life. I've been pretty poor. Cabernet was not part of my reality for significant parts of my life. That's not what I mean by "relatively comfortable."
I don't know what you would expect from this experiment, but I grew up on 1145 W 255 S. I bet we could panhandle within easy walking distance from there. If I agree we meet in front of my childhood home and walk over the 4th south viaduct, like I did as a child many times, stop by pioneer park and decide where we want to set up shop. I'm game.
You think you know me. You don't know me.
Challenge accepted.
 
I'm on the fence. I think some of them really are just ****ed in life due to circumstances outside of their control and need help from society.

And some are scum. Hard to distinguish though. I have given them gloves and hats in winter when I see a sad cold looking sob on the freeway off ramp. They generally seem really grateful when I have done this.

Also I have went downtown and helped serve thanksgiving dinner to the homeless a few times. Makes me really grateful to not be in their shoes.

I recently hit up a short convo with a regular near my work about someone taking his corner. He was very coherent and competent enough to work. The guy had been there for about a month and still is. He's obviously doing well enough for what he wants.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The mentally ill generally don't have the mental capacity or patience to panhandle. Those down on their luck but upstanding will find a homeless shelter instead of living in a cardboard hut. That's a pretty darn obvious logical solution. Panhandlers are mainly vagrants and drifters who do this as there full time job, travelling from city to city in groups who prey off the hearts of suckers.
 
I was driving to the grocery store yesterday and it was raining. There was a man at the stop sign holding a sign saying something like "Army Vet - Anything Helps". When I was finished I drove back the same way and there was a girl holding the sign this time and I look over to my right and see the dude sitting in his car. They were taking turns standing out there and who even knows if either one is a veteran or homeless for that matter. Seeing stuff like that makes me not want to give anyone anything.
 
I've seen a very nice car drop off 3 of them for "work" at the 106th south I-15 overpass and they all brought their signs and went to their assigned spots to panhandle. Also, they were not limping until they got to their stations.
 
2 experiences from my mission, and some training I received as a manager, swayed me to not give to random "homeless" people. I give to organizations, not individuals, where I think the most good can happen.

So the first experience was a homeless man asking for money in Germany while I was a missionary. I asked him what the money was for. He said food. We took him to a local grocery store and let him pick out the food he wanted, then bought it and gave him the bag. As we left, I glanced back in time to catch him staring at the bag, then watched him dump the entire bag and all its contents into a garbage can.

The second experience was during a street display (we did a bunch of these on my mission, they could be fun). There was a woman there on a blanket with a small child begging when we arrived to set up (about 8 am I would guess). We set up our display and then the other missionaries participating showed up and we spent the bulk of the day there, handing out BOMs and talking to people. I glanced over from time to time to see if people were giving her money, she looked very bedraggled and down on her luck for sure, and the kid looked pitiful. Occasionally she would get up and shift positions, looking for all the world like a full on cripple. All she ever had was a few coins on the blanket in front of her, but I did see several people drop coins there (usually 2 or 5 mark coins, so between a buck fifty and 4 bucks was normally what I saw people drop). One of the other missionaries gave her a 5 mark coin. At the end of the day, when the shops were mostly closed and we were taking down the street display, I saw her pack up her things. She stood up, revealing a fairly full bag of coins from among her blankets and coat and such, and a shiny black very new model mercedes pulled up nearby. A young guy in what looked like a very expensive suit with shiny shoes and shinier hair hustled out and helped her pick up her things. She walked, with no sign of pain or any kind of malady suddenly, with the child to the car, got in the back seat and they sped away.

The training I had was called Performance Management, and it was conducted by the Aubrey Daniels group. In short it focuses on reinforcement to drive behavior. The instructor got us into a discussion of panhandlers and what drives that behavior. In that discussion it became so clear what the drivers were behind panhandling and how reinforcing that behavior did nothing to actually help the individual, in fact panhandling can be very dangerous (the guy had statistics on hobo to hobo crime, death rates, all that kind of stuff, that was really bad, and showed that active panhandling is more dangerous than just living on the street and not actively participating in panhandling), and when we reinforce the behavior by giving them money it puts people at greater risk and causes the problem overall to get worse.

So I do not give to individual panhandlers or homeless people. I give to organizations that I feel will do something with the money to help the most people the best way possible.
 
I suppose some of you might be better than me. I pay my taxes and I don't give a dime to anything non-family or friend other than when the ward kids finally dare to ring my door on fast Sunday. If an organization needs more money to help the needy then we can raise taxes and I'll gladly pay. Until then I'll continue not giving a dime extra to anything and boycotting the radio stations during their December fundraiser events for the food bank and what not.
 
I suppose some of you might be better than me. I pay my taxes and I don't give a dime to anything non-family or friend other than when the ward kids finally dare to ring my door on fast Sunday. If an organization needs more money to help the needy then we can raise taxes and I'll gladly pay. Until then I'll continue not giving a dime extra to anything and boycotting the radio stations during their December fundraiser events for the food bank and what not.

If I had any faith in what the government does with my taxes, I might feel the same. But I don't, so I give a little something to specific organizations.
 
We can't help homeless people until we deal with drug addiction and mental issues. Until then the government will just dump money intro trying to appease to people with the most money, who don't want to see homeless people.

Free healthcare and decriminalizing drugs would solve most the homeless problems in SLC.
 
Give a man fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

What if he knows how to fish and refuses to?

What if he knows how to fish but cant?

What if he was fishing and lost his job because he was over prescribed strong pain killers and became addicted to the point he lost his job and started buying heroine because it was cheaper?
 
About a year ago we were at Temple Square. My 8-year-old had earned $20 that summer and took it out with us. There was a guy panhandling. After passing, my son felt like he should go back to give him his $20. I felt conflicted, but told him that it was his decision as it was his money. He went back and gave it to him and the guy took it. I was glad that he thought outside himself, but pretty pissed off that this guy took 20 hard earned dollars from a kid who didn't know better.
 
The area around the road home gets pretty scary. I have friends in The apartments across the street from it. I don't mind walking through the area usually but I am more on edge. I get offered drugs and hassled a bunch but that's easy to walk past. I have had a gun pulled on me there and that is scary, especially because people on drugs and/or desperate are unpredictable.
 
Sometimes I give money, food, and/or random goodies to people cuz I feel like it, but the thing I like most is that i never analyze whether it was 'right' or 'wrong' to do so
 
I was driving to the grocery store yesterday and it was raining. There was a man at the stop sign holding a sign saying something like "Army Vet - Anything Helps". When I was finished I drove back the same way and there was a girl holding the sign this time and I look over to my right and see the dude sitting in his car. They were taking turns standing out there and who even knows if either one is a veteran or homeless for that matter. Seeing stuff like that makes me not want to give anyone anything.

There's the chance they could be living out of their car. A very good chance.
 
I know some need help. I don't think handing them a buck or two as you pass by is the way to help, at all.

I think giving to panhandlers is done more for the benefit of the giver to alleviate their sense of guilt or to make them feel like they are good person when doing that has nothing to do at all with being a good person.

I think panhandlers make spaces seem more hostile to women and children and even just a man walking by himself. They are taking those public spaces away from their intended use and turning them into panhandling spaces. I haven't seen it much in Salt Lake but in other parts of the country I have seen very aggressive panhandling. That can be downright scary for anyone, like you've got to pay the toll to walk past or you'll be verbally and possibly physically assaulted.

The more panhandling works as a way to get money the more you will see people panhandling, the more the premium spots will be contended over, the more aggressive the panhandling will become. If profitable enough you'll see people doing it as a profession over working a low paying job. But it'll also be something your average junkie will be more prone to spending time doing. This might be someone who lives with people who support them insofar as giving them a place to live, but panhandling is how they get their drug money, how they connect with other junkies.

Then there's just the fact that I don't think a string of cars needs to miss their turn signal getting off the freeway because someone wants to give a person a couple bucks while we all wait.

To me the bottom line is that if panhandling didn't work (no one ever gave to panhandlers) then the people doing it now who are truly in need would turn to other forms of assistance. And if we supported those other forms of assistance instead of giving to panhandlers we'd have a safer more effective form of care. People wouldn't be standing on the corners of our off-ramps. People wouldn't be harassing us as we walk through high foot traffic areas.

By giving to panhandlers you are contributing to a problem and not helping to solve homelessness or poverty at all, not even really helping to provide comfort for the homeless and needy in any meaningful way. You're just paying for your daily "I'm a good person" fix and hooking an alcoholic or junkie up with part of their next fix.

The area around the main railroad station and cathedral in Melbourne is over run with them, I used to do some cash in hand door work in the area, some mates work used to work at the other end of the block the number of people we would recognise from the hospital was ridiculous, most had serious criminal or forensic histories, substance abuse problems and so on. Most of them have what is now called personality disorders (what most of us would call being a ****) their inability to act like a normal human being means they have difficulty accessing services. Basically most of them don't like to follow any rules, which is fine by me, just don't expect me to pick up the tab.
 
If I had any faith in what the government does with my taxes, I might feel the same. But I don't, so I give a little something to specific organizations.

I get the sentiment but working for government has changed my p.o.v. strongly. We tend to be caught in the cross hairs between public sentiment like yours, the governors office and state legislature, Feds, and the regulated community. It seems like there's often nothing we can do without upsetting one or even all of those groups even though we are the solution providers. You most likely have similar can't win scenarios with your line of work.

But I have seen how efficient and effective government can be, especially our law enforcement agencies that are under constant funding pressure.
 
There was a show some of you may have watched called Sports Night. It contains this exchange between one of the sports anchors and his boss's boss, over what to give money to:

Isaac Jaffe: Danny, every morning I leave an acre and a half of the most beautiful property in New Canaan, get on a train and come to work in a fifty-four story glass high rise. In between I step over bodies to get here - 20, 30, 50 of 'em a day. So, as I'm stepping over them I reach into my pocket and give them whatever I've got.

Dan Rydell: You're not afraid they're gonna spend it on booze?

Isaac Jaffe: I'm hoping they're going to spend it on booze. Look, Dan, these people, most of 'em, it's not like they're one hot meal away from turning it around. For most of 'em the clock's pretty much run out. You'll be home soon enough. What's wrong with giving them a little novacaine to get 'em through the night?
 
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