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So are you going to argue that because it kills everything it leads to soil erosion? I'm willing to bet Monsanto manages their soil just fine.

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Here's the point, but let me briefly digress and I will watch the film again in the next day or two to get my facts right because I saw it more than a year ago, maybe longer. It came out in 2014.

Are you up on the cutting-edge research they're doing and learning about the microbiome, how we have billions of microscopic bacteria in our bodies that keeps us healthy, and why people are into kombucha and other fermented foods and drinks? Well, my understanding is the GE products are engineered to resist Roundup Ready, which in turn kills all other (I don't if it's a total wipeout), but many of the countless micoorganisms that live in the soil and that not only are beneficial but essential to its health -- according to Symphony of the Soil, this does erode the topsoil of many of these important microorganisms that promote soil health. Now you say it doesn't, but it does kill all the competitors of the GE product, correct? Why don't you watch the movie because it explains this a lot better than me and I will watch it again, but it might be of interest to you. It discusses the issue with farmers, agronomists, soil scientists, etc. You have more understanding of this, so if there is bias you would be able to detect it better than me.
 
You didn't answer the most important question. Does the Roundup Ready kill everything but the GE product? That's what matters, and if it does, that proves my point.

IIRC Roundup is a broadleaf herbicide so it wouldn't kill everything. It kills (non gmo)broadleaf plants.
 
Here's the point, but let me briefly digress and I will watch the film again in the next day or two to get my facts right because I saw it more than a year ago, maybe longer. It came out in 2014.

Are you up on the cutting-edge research they're doing and learning about the microbiome, how we have billions of microscopic bacteria in our bodies that keeps us healthy, and why people are into kombucha and other fermented foods and drinks? Well, my understanding is the GE products are engineered to resist Roundup Ready, which in turn kills all other (I don't if it's a total wipeout), but many of the countless micoorganisms that live in the soil and that not only are beneficial but essential to its health -- according to Symphony of the Soil, this does erode the topsoil of many of these important microorganisms that promote soil health. Now you say it doesn't, but it does kill all the competitors of the GE product, correct? Why don't you watch the movie because it explains this a lot better than me and I will watch it again, but it might be of interest to you. It discusses the issue with farmers, agronomists, soil scientists, etc. You have more understanding of this, so if there is bias you would be able to detect it better than me.

Roundup kills plants, not organisms, bacteria, what have you. Plants. Nothing else. This is really, really simple stuff that you can look up anywhere.

Now then, you've mentioned cultivation several times, I've asked you to expound on that, but you haven't yet. Will you please do so?
 
Pretty sure we should trust JTT over Eenie here.

On a side note, if we need someone to stalk (no pun intended) a player, Eenie's your man. Or was that AKMVP?
 
Roundup kills plants, not organisms, bacteria, what have you. Plants. Nothing else. This is really, really simple stuff that you can look up anywhere.

Now then, you've mentioned cultivation several times, I've asked you to expound on that, but you haven't yet. Will you please do so?

I'm not a farmer, so I was referring to cultivation in a more broad sense -- the use of pesticides / Roundup Ready as a part of cultivation, so I may have used it incorrectly. Anyway, I will watch "Symphony of the Soil" again and tell you in more detail its claims. Like I said, it's been awhile, and the thing that made the big impression on me, or the takeaway, if you will, was its claim of eroding the top soil because it kills so many microorganisms that are essential components of it.
 
I'm not a farmer, so I was referring to cultivation in a more broad sense -- the use of pesticides / Roundup Ready as a part of cultivation, so I may have used it incorrectly. Anyway, I will watch "Symphony of the Soil" again and tell you in more detail its claims. Like I said, it's been awhile, and the thing that made the big impression on me, or the takeaway, if you will, was its claim of eroding the top soil because it kills so many microorganisms that are essential components of it.

Oh.

Well that's a stupid claim. Roundup kills plants, nothing else.

Try a little fact checking next time.
 
The problem with some of these documentaries is they assume large scale farms can do what their gardens or little 5 acre farms do.

I'm sure some of you have organic gardens, which is great if you do. Think of the labor you put into that. Picking weeds, planting, harvesting, watering, the works. And an average garden is what, 20x20? Maybe? So that's 400 sq ft. Which is 0.9% of one acre. Not a lot.

Now personally, I'll say we farm 1000 acres. It's actually a little more, but 1000 is a nice number to use. And just an FYI, we are considered a small farm. So doing the math, that garden is 0.0009% of my farm. Now think back to the labor you out in. How can we do that large scale? I can barely find enough labor the way things are now. I'd have to, at minimum, quadruple my labor force. Good luck with that. And that's not even taking into effect trying to make a profit, which is hard enough as is.

So that's my main complaint with documentaries like this. They aren't realistic. It's just not possible if you want to have any type of standards at all.
 
The problem with some of these documentaries is they assume large scale farms can do what their gardens or little 5 acre farms do.

I'm sure some of you have organic gardens, which is great if you do. Think of the labor you put into that. Picking weeds, planting, harvesting, watering, the works. And an average garden is what, 20x20? Maybe? So that's 400 sq ft. Which is 0.9% of one acre. Not a lot.

Now personally, I'll say we farm 1000 acres. It's actually a little more, but 1000 is a nice number to use. And just an FYI, we are considered a small farm. So doing the math, that garden is 0.0009% of my farm. Now think back to the labor you out in. How can we do that large scale? I can barely find enough labor the way things are now. I'd have to, at minimum, quadruple my labor force. Good luck with that. And that's not even taking into effect trying to make a profit, which is hard enough as is.

So that's my main complaint with documentaries like this. They aren't realistic. It's just not possible if you want to have any type of standards at all.

Stop, ****ing stop. You're speaking way too logically and intelligently now.
 
The problem with some of these documentaries is they assume large scale farms can do what their gardens or little 5 acre farms do.

I'm sure some of you have organic gardens, which is great if you do. Think of the labor you put into that. Picking weeds, planting, harvesting, watering, the works. And an average garden is what, 20x20? Maybe? So that's 400 sq ft. Which is 0.9% of one acre. Not a lot.

Now personally, I'll say we farm 1000 acres. It's actually a little more, but 1000 is a nice number to use. And just an FYI, we are considered a small farm. So doing the math, that garden is 0.0009% of my farm. Now think back to the labor you out in. How can we do that large scale? I can barely find enough labor the way things are now. I'd have to, at minimum, quadruple my labor force. Good luck with that. And that's not even taking into effect trying to make a profit, which is hard enough as is.

So that's my main complaint with documentaries like this. They aren't realistic. It's just not possible if you want to have any type of standards at all.

Stop, ****ing stop. You're speaking way too logically and intelligently now.

This. Stahhhhhhp.



As an aside, I make my own sauerkraut. It is WAY WAY better than anything you can buy in the store. I also make pickles which are pretty good too. And in Germany I got into fermenting hot peppers and making a version of tabasco and a fermented jalapeno relish that is seriously awesome. Love that fermented food, and that microbiome ****.
 
The problem with some of these documentaries is they assume large scale farms can do what their gardens or little 5 acre farms do.

I'm sure some of you have organic gardens, which is great if you do. Think of the labor you put into that. Picking weeds, planting, harvesting, watering, the works. And an average garden is what, 20x20? Maybe? So that's 400 sq ft. Which is 0.9% of one acre. Not a lot.

Now personally, I'll say we farm 1000 acres. It's actually a little more, but 1000 is a nice number to use. And just an FYI, we are considered a small farm. So doing the math, that garden is 0.0009% of my farm. Now think back to the labor you out in. How can we do that large scale? I can barely find enough labor the way things are now. I'd have to, at minimum, quadruple my labor force. Good luck with that. And that's not even taking into effect trying to make a profit, which is hard enough as is.

So that's my main complaint with documentaries like this. They aren't realistic. It's just not possible if you want to have any type of standards at all.

Now we're getting somewhere, so far as understanding the issues -- at least for me. I have run across more detailed information about glyphosate that I will share. I think it's important to consider in the whole ball of wax. Just a thought, could Monsanto redevelop the GMO so that it could use a pesticide that doesn't have the harmful biological effects of Roundup?

Anyway, here is the article, and you might recall my earlier mention of the microbiome, the findings about which have become perhaps the most fascinating topic of discussion in health research and functional medicine:

Roundup: Quick Death for Weeds, Slow and Painful Death for You
by Sarah Updated: July 08, 2017

You’ve seen the commercials. All American Dad, pump sprayer in hand, attacking those pesky weeds growing in the cracks of his family’s driveway with a vengeance. He chooses Roundup, of course.
Why? Because Roundup kills weeds to the root so they won’t come back making you the laughingstock of your suburban neighborhood.

Is Your Home Making You Sick?

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Roundup, Roundup everywhere. Most homeowners use it without a second thought. Many schools even use it, blithely spraying around planting beds and sidewalks where children walk and play, tracking its residues into classrooms, cars, homes and little bodies.Roundup is indisputably the King of Herbicides and one of Monsanto’s most lucrative crown jewels. Not only is it widely used by consumers, it is also heavily used by industrial agriculture – more popular than any other herbicide worldwide. Its residues are found on the staple crops of the Western diet – sugar, corn, soy and wheat – and in the plethora of processed foods made with these foods as well. In particular, GMO corn and soy are heavily doused in Roundup as these crops are genetically engineered to be immune to its withering effects.
The trouble is, while Roundup is highly effective at killing weeds, it’s also proving highly effective at killing us too – slowly but surely and insidiously – via Roundup’s deadly active ingredient – glyphosate.
While the pesticide industry maintains that glyphosate is minimally toxic to humans, new research published in the Journal Entropy strongly argues otherwise by shedding light on exactly how glyphosate disrupts mammalian physiology.
Authored by Anthony Samsel and Stephanie Seneff of MIT, the paper investigates glyphosate’s inhibition of cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes, an overlooked component of lethal toxicity to mammals.
In the in depth video interview below on her groundbreaking research, Dr. Seneff describes the mechanism by which the glyphosate in Roundup disrupts human biological processes.

The currently accepted view is that ghyphosate is not harmful to humans or any mammals because the shikimate pathway found in plants is absent in animals. The shikimate pathway is involved with the plant’s synthesis of certain amino acids and is lethally disrupted by glyphosate.

What has been completely overlooked until now is that the shikimate pathway is present in beneficial gut bacteria, which play a critical role in human health. Gut bacteria aid digestion, prevent permeability of the gastointestinal tract, synthesize vitamins and provide the foundation for robust immunity.

Glyphosate Disrupts the Functioning of Beneficial Gut Bacteria

In synergy with disruption of the biosynthesis of important amino acids via the shikimate pathway, glyphosate inhibits the cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes produced by the gut microbiome. CYP enzymes are critical to human biology because they detoxify the multitude of foreign chemical compounds, xenobiotics, that we are exposed to in our modern environment today.

As a result, humans exposed to glyphosate through use of Roundup in their community or through ingestion of its residues on industrialized food products become even more vulnerable to the damaging effects of other chemicals and environmental toxins they encounter!

What’s worse is that the negative impact of glyphosate exposure is slow and insidious over months and years as inflammation gradually gains a foothold in the cellular systems of the body.

The consequences of this systemic inflammation are most of the diseases and conditions associated with the Western lifestyle:

In summary, Dr. Seneff’s study of Roundup’s ghastly glyphosate uncovers the manner in which this lethal environmental toxin gradually and inevitably disrupts homeostatis in the human body with the tragic end result of disease, degeneration, and widespread suffering.

Still want to “shoot” those weeds this weekend with some Roundup and buy those unlabeled, GMO laced processed foods in the pretty packages at the supermarket?

Sources and More Information

Glyphosate’s Suppression of Cytochrome P450 Enzymes and Amino Acid Biosynthesis by the Gut Microbiome: Pathways to Modern Diseases

Institute of Responsible Technology: Monsanto’s Herbicide–Featuring the Darth Vader Chemical
More Toxic Than Declared
Toxic Wheat

Glyphosate used on DOZENS of Food Crops

Dutch Ban Glyphosate, France and Brazil Likely to Soon Follow
 
It looks like you found that "article" on a blog...

Yes, just linked it. I'm really not surprised because I did send you that 331-page Pdf that listed studies which found troublesome things about glyphosate. People are well aware of this in Europe but because of the Monsanto P-R / lobby, it's been suppressed. Remember the attempts to get a labeling bill here, how they were defeated, because of Monsanto. But in Europe, it's a different story. Why do you think they require labeling?
 
Man, do some freaking research. You ignorant, lazy imbecile.

This took me less than 5 minutes.

1) Seneff got a doctorate in computer science. If she wants to give her opinion on computers, that's valid. Acting like she's a doctor in health...low class "journalism".

2) If you look at her other works, she's a hack. Nobody agrees with her. By linking to her you devalue your entire argument. Nobody respects her work.

3) You're an idiot.
 
Yes, just linked it. I'm really not surprised because I did send you that 331-page Pdf that listed studies which found troublesome things about glyphosate. People are well aware of this in Europe but because of the Monsanto P-R / lobby, it's been suppressed. Remember the attempts to get a labeling bill here, how they were defeated, because of Monsanto. But in Europe, it's a different story. Why do you think they require labeling?

We don't want labeling because millions of idiots like yourself wouldn't buy anything because of your ignorance. It's an economics issue, not a safety one. The safety is solid, and any honest and intelligent person can see that.
 
Yes, just linked it. I'm really not surprised because I did send you that 331-page Pdf that listed studies which found troublesome things about glyphosate. People are well aware of this in Europe but because of the Monsanto P-R / lobby, it's been suppressed. Remember the attempts to get a labeling bill here, how they were defeated, because of Monsanto. But in Europe, it's a different story. Why do you think they require labeling?

Suppressed how? You realize there is all the information, on both sides, right here on the internet? All of us have been bombarded with this anti-GMO nonsense. We know the anti-GMO story. We chose to believe more credible sources who aren't offering free chapters of their books or selling us over-priced and inferior products.

You think Monsanto has bought off the whole government, all the agricultural universities, all the farmers, all scientists who know the field?

People, like you, just get excited thinking they know a secret that "smart" people don't know. It's not a secret and we all know the hogwash well enough.
 
We don't want labeling because millions of idiots like yourself wouldn't buy anything because of your ignorance. It's an economics issue, not a safety one. The safety is solid, and any honest and intelligent person can see that.

Wrong again. The World Health Organization did a study that showed no economic effects were caused by the switch to labeling in Europe. People say crap about a lot of people, that they're "hacks." That's merely an ad hominem argument, an opinion without substance.

So explain why Europe requires it then?
 
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