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5 year old shoots and kills 7 year old brother at home by accident... In USA of course.

I'm not opposed to some gun reform. But until we tackle the full problem it's not really going to get fixed.
 
Stoked said:
Not all gun shots are lethal. People get shot and walk away from it all the time. But what's the point of your post when I already said "Guns are just the most effective tool..."?
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My point is minimising their availability will change your world and make your life and your children's lives a hell of a lot safer. The lethality of a gun is a game changer in terms of escalating violence to the point where deadly force becomes regularised in the society. Other weapons don't have that effect on a situation, sure it may escalate things, a greater degree of violence my be used in order to subdue someone, worst i've seen is a broken arm or wrist but nobody is getting shot or having to make the choice to shoot somebody else.
 
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Safetydan said:
No guns = Nobody gets shot. Prevented
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So, the people who keep saying "nobody wants to take your guns" are lying?

Here's an idea. If you guys want gun reform, how about you all figure out what you really want first. It's beyond confusing hearing "nobody wants to take your guns" then the next person saying "No guns=Nobody get's shot".

I don't mean to come off as an *** but I have no clue what you all are really fighting for. In order to have this conversation there has to be some sort of foundation to what you are looking to do. Right now it's all over the place and impossible to comprehend as a gun owner.
 
Rubashov said:
My point is minimising their availability will change your world and make your life and your children's lives a hell of a lot safer. The lethality of a gun is a game changer in terms of escalating violence to the point where deadly force becomes regularised in the society. Other weapons don't have that effect on a situation, sure it may escalate things, a greater degree of violence my be used in order to subdue someone, worst i've seen is a broken arm or wrist but nobody is getting shot or having to make the choice to shoot somebody else.
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If we are looking to increase the safety for me and my children guns are far down the list. Plenty of far bigger threats to them. Like car crashes (DUIs), America's growing weight problem, medical problems and drugs.

If safety is the goal there are far bigger risks. Not saying we shouldn't improve where we can but the media and social craze is wildly disproportionate. Why is that narrative pushed?
 
Stoked said:
If we are looking to increase the safety for me and my children guns are far down the list. Plenty of far bigger threats to them. Like car crashes (DUIs), America's growing weight problem, medical problems and drugs.

If safety is the goal there are far bigger risks. Not saying we shouldn't improve where we can but the media and social craze is wildly disproportionate. Why is that narrative pushed?
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Cause its easily preventable and something that is directly linked to legislation and the political system. Drugs and motor vehicle matters are too but not to the same degree, there is a direct correlation between gun control and dramatically lower gun deaths.
 
JazzyFresh said:
So, the people who keep saying "nobody wants to take your guns" are lying?

Here's an idea. If you guys want gun reform, how about you all figure out what you really want first. It's beyond confusing hearing "nobody wants to take your guns" then the next person saying "No guns=Nobody get's shot".

I don't mean to come off as an *** but I have no clue what you all are really fighting for. In order to have this conversation there has to be some sort of foundation to what you are looking to do. Right now it's all over the place and impossible to comprehend as a gun owner.
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I don't speak for anybody but myself, and yes, I want to take all of your guns.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
Rubashov said:
Cause its easily preventable and something that is directly linked to legislation and the political system. Drugs and motor vehicle matters are too but not to the same degree, there is a direct correlation between gun control and dramatically lower gun deaths.
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And maybe one day the American people will start voting out the legislators that don't vote to their liking.
 
JustTheTip said:
But gun safety would prevent this...

Just saying. All of my guns are locked up, with the magazine or clip removed, the removed magazine or clip being empty, and none of my kids know the combination. Heck, my wife doesn't even know the combination. So it's not illogical to say that gun safety would've prevented this.

Still a terrible tragedy, and the blame goes on the parents.
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It is illogical because people aren’t just flawed, they’re flat out stupid.
 
Stoked said:
And maybe one day the American people will start voting out the legislators that don't vote to their liking.
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Saw a cool lecture by David Simon on youtube about that the other night. I'll dig it up sometime tomorrow gotta get some kip.
 
MVP said:
How does it protect your family from intruder then? Lets say somebody breaks in your house when you are not at home.... your wife will be calling you to ask the safe combination to unlock it and then ask how to load the magazine? By that time it's too late.
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Yes, the plot for Taken 4 happens all so often.
 
Brandishing a firearm during a criminal act- a minimal 5 years
2 strikes you're out- 2nd time ='s life

Watch the gun homicides drop dramatically.
 
JazzyFresh said:
And how do you plan on accomplishing this? Honest question.
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How do I, safetydan, plan on taking everybody's guns? That's a good question.

I think I'll start from corner of the country, like the northeast corner of Maine,and start hitting houses one by one. There's no way to know if somebody owns a gun or not so Ill have to check every house just in case. I'll check back in weekly to show you my progress.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
Safetydan said:
How do I, safetydan, plan on taking everybody's guns? That's a good question.

I think I'll start from corner of the country, like the northeast corner of Maine,and start hitting houses one by one. There's no way to know if somebody owns a gun or not so Ill have to check every house just in case. I'll check back in weekly to show you my progress.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
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I sense sarcasm. Solid tactic in discussions. I stand by my original comment that the anti-gun folk don't have any plan whatsoever or truly know what they are after. I don't mean that rudely but it's true.
 
JazzyFresh said:
I sense sarcasm. Solid tactic in discussions. I stand by my original comment that the anti-gun folk don't have any plan whatsoever or truly know what they are after. I don't mean that rudely but it's true.
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Start by banning guns. The possession of guns is now illegal outside of certain professions and/or heavily licensed. I don't care how it's done, buyback programs if you want to play nice, whatever. They're useless outside of the murdering of living creatures and... target practice? maybe? and have no place in modern society.
 
Stoked said:
There will still be guns. LEOs, private security and some gov. employees will still have them. Not to mention the illegal trade. If guns are banned the gun traffic that comes north from the southern border would be massive. There will never be a scenario where there are no guns in the US.

Edit: That doesn't even mention home made firearms and 3D printing...
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Sorry, I missed this. Yes, eliminating guns entirely is impossible. I wasn't speaking to that. Just the simple concept that "no guns = no shooting deaths. I'm glad you agree. Would it also be safe to assume that you agree with the concept that a decrease in gun availability would equal less gun violence?
 
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Safetydan said:
Sorry, I missed this. Yes, eliminating guns entirely is impossible. I wasn't speaking to that. Just the simple concept that "no guns = no shooting deaths. I'm glad you agree. Would it also be safe to assume that you agree with the concept that a decrease in gun availability would equal less gun violence?
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At this point probably not as the market is already at full saturation. You won't decrease availability. Look at Chicago.

If we are talking grand hypotheticals were suddenly guns are hard to come by (ignoring confiscation, homemade versions, securing the border, sudden compliance of the gun rights crowd) then yeah they'd go down.

If food was less plentiful it would be harder to die from obesity related illnesses.
 
Stoked said:
At this point probably not as the market is already at full saturation. You won't decrease availability. Look at Chicago.

If we are talking grand hypotheticals were suddenly guns are hard to come by (ignoring confiscation, homemade versions, securing the border, sudden compliance of the gun rights crowd) then yeah they'd go down.

If food was less plentiful it would be harder to die from obesity related illnesses.
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You don't think that making guns immediately illegal and subject to aggressive prosecution would decrease gun availability? Even if a black market survives and thrives and people decide to start making their own, the fact remains that gun availability is going to decrease... massively so. The black market and local mom and pop shops couldn't hope to match the current commercial production level, and the demand for firearms is going to dry up significantly. Why wouldn't it? People, as a general rule, like to avoid fines/going to prison.

It's not like this hasn't been tried before. People keep looking at Chicago? Why not the multitude of countries across the world that have successfully and effectively decreased the level of deadly violence within their borders simply by not having them around. go try living in a foreign country sometime. The U.S., if we're being honest, is kinda sucky in a lot of ways.
 
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