There is no sutch thing as a Defensive stopper like Pippen was. The new rules made sure of that. All you can do is try to stay in front of your guy without touching him. Almost impossibe as a wing player to do that. Thats why drafting a guy on Defense alone (wing/guards only) is never the way to go. If you can get a good Shot Blocker in the middle that helps because guys are going to get to the basket now a days with the rules the way they are.
Defensive Stoppers in the Lottery
- Thread starter framer
- Start date
Yes and No.
Yes, wing stoppers can't shut down really quick offensive wings due to the rules. In regular season.
But refs do allow pretty much of contact in playoffs. That's when you really need these guys to show up.
Not liking Singleton though.
candrew
Well-Known Member
Defensive Stoppers are like hot chicks with a personality - everybody knows of one; but no one can produce one.
There is no such thing as defensive stoppers anymore. Do you really think the league wants more Bruce Bowens and Ben Wallaces or more Kevin Durants and Carmelo Anthonys? Alot of the stuff that Bruce Bowen did 6 or 7 years ago would get a player fouled out in 20 minutes today.
What's left are players who buy into playing team defense and players who don't.
There is no such thing as defensive stoppers anymore. Do you really think the league wants more Bruce Bowens and Ben Wallaces or more Kevin Durants and Carmelo Anthonys? Alot of the stuff that Bruce Bowen did 6 or 7 years ago would get a player fouled out in 20 minutes today.
What's left are players who buy into playing team defense and players who don't.
gomretat
Well-Known Member
Bingo. Billy is right on. I would argue that using a lottery pick on someone you think is only great offensively is equally as silly though the offensive guys are easier to detect.
BTW, when I opened this thread, I was sure it was about Jimmer.
NotDeadYet
Well-Known Member
It kinda comes down to which is more valuable; a 4-man offense with a lockdown defender playing against 5 defenders, which likely scores fewer points but allows fewer, or a 5-man offense which should be able to score more, but w/o a lockdown dude, might allow more? It kinda depends on matchups, really. More and more teams are running a jailbreak offense as much as they can, which is taking advantage of the rules, is generally more exciting, and draws dem fans into the arena...
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
Tony Allen anybody? He gets quality minutes with a good Grizzlies team, even though he is erratic and not a good offensive player to say the least. He earns his minutes because of his lock down defense more than makes up for his boneheaded plays. I believe Singleton could be a defender like Tony Allen eventually AND be better on offense than him (mostly just make smarter plays). The only problem, as stated before, is defense is a lot about effort. Singleton has the body and physical ability but is he going to accept the role as somebody off the bench and just guarding the teams best wing player? I just like this pick a lot because we desperately need somebody to guard Durant for the next 10 years!
framer
Well-Known Member
If you want to talk BYU, I would make sure that you invite Jackson Emery to camp, as he does have a chance of being the desparate, starving, undrafted FA, lockdown defender type of guy. He can hit the open 3 which seems to be the key in keeping a defensive specialist on the floor. It costs the Jazz nothing, although if there is no camp or preseason things get more dicey. . .
I used to be really high on Singleton, but I am really starting to think a fat contract ruins most defenders. Carlos Boozer played passable defense in Cleveland, Kiri played all world defense untill he graduated past his rookie contract. I also think the idea of a raw, uber-athletic shotblocking center with no offensive game is far better than the reality, especially when they are given lottery type money.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
I don't think there are many perimeter "defensive stoppers" in the game anymore. A Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Michael Cooper Derrick McKey or Bruce Bowen are rare breeds that don't come along in every draft. Right now, you put the best defenders in the game on LeBron, Durant, and Wade, and they might have to work a little harder but they're still scoring.
Never liked the idea of trying to draft a perimeter "defensive stopper" high for two reasons.
1. No matter how great you are, you're still going to have issues defensively as a rookie.
2. Some of the better perimeter defenders didn't become great defenders until they were in their 4th, 5th year in the league. James Posey a prime example. Even DeShawn Stevenson - one of the better defending SG's in the league now - was a poor defender in Utah and Orlando but a much better one by the time he got to Washington. Often times, it just takes time and experience, not something available in high-quanities to a rookie.
Never liked the idea of trying to draft a perimeter "defensive stopper" high for two reasons.
1. No matter how great you are, you're still going to have issues defensively as a rookie.
2. Some of the better perimeter defenders didn't become great defenders until they were in their 4th, 5th year in the league. James Posey a prime example. Even DeShawn Stevenson - one of the better defending SG's in the league now - was a poor defender in Utah and Orlando but a much better one by the time he got to Washington. Often times, it just takes time and experience, not something available in high-quanities to a rookie.
Hipporippo
Well-Known Member
Even Bowen, Bell, and Battier are or were knock-down 3-point shooters. Wings who are strictly one dimensional defensive stoppers would not get enough playing time. One of the reasons I want Singleton is that I think his offense is underrated.
candrew
Well-Known Member
Good point - Bowen, Wallace and Battier were not great defenders right out of the gate either. To add to your point I think veterans are allowed to get away with a little more too and/or they know how to cheat and get away with it. Calbert Cheney had a reputation as a good man defender; but if you watched him closely his year in Utah, he was constantly grabbing the shirt or knocking off balance the player he was defending.
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
IMO, you do NOT draft a D stopper. You draft the best guy, or for positional need maybe.
Let me rephrase..you do NOT draft a D stopper in the first round, for sure. If the guy you do draft turns out to be that D stopper besides his other attributes, bonus.
Sure, D is partly talent and size, but I still believe it is mostly heart and desire. Tons of tall, athletic studs who suck at D because it isnt the cool thing to do in high school or college even. Then they get to the pros and some find that their best chance of staying around and getting paid to not have a real job is to buckle down and play D. That is when D stoppers are born, IMO....
Let me rephrase..you do NOT draft a D stopper in the first round, for sure. If the guy you do draft turns out to be that D stopper besides his other attributes, bonus.
Sure, D is partly talent and size, but I still believe it is mostly heart and desire. Tons of tall, athletic studs who suck at D because it isnt the cool thing to do in high school or college even. Then they get to the pros and some find that their best chance of staying around and getting paid to not have a real job is to buckle down and play D. That is when D stoppers are born, IMO....
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
this.
Zerol
Active Member
I rate team defense much higher than individual defense so how the coach preaches defense in practices is very important.
Look at Dallas last night. They put Marion on LeBron late in the game. Sure Marion is a good defender in the NBA, but if the secondary defender did not come out and crowd LeBron after the pick was set, LeBron would have the open lane to the basket. Instead, Nowitzki spread his arms to show on the pick and roll and Marion recovers quickly to form a double team that forced LeBron to take two long 3s. Relying on one individual to stop the best offensive player simply won't work. Just look at the Heat on the other end. They put Bosh on Nowitzki without sending anyone for double team, which led to a layup in a close game situation. The Heat has been a very good defensive team but dropped the ball there. You got to blame the coach on that particular play.
For the Jazz to improve the defense, you don't just look for defensive-minded guys, rather you have to develop a defensive scheme, practice it every day, and get everyone to buy in and put in the efforts. Not just fouling to avoid easy baskets.
Look at Dallas last night. They put Marion on LeBron late in the game. Sure Marion is a good defender in the NBA, but if the secondary defender did not come out and crowd LeBron after the pick was set, LeBron would have the open lane to the basket. Instead, Nowitzki spread his arms to show on the pick and roll and Marion recovers quickly to form a double team that forced LeBron to take two long 3s. Relying on one individual to stop the best offensive player simply won't work. Just look at the Heat on the other end. They put Bosh on Nowitzki without sending anyone for double team, which led to a layup in a close game situation. The Heat has been a very good defensive team but dropped the ball there. You got to blame the coach on that particular play.
For the Jazz to improve the defense, you don't just look for defensive-minded guys, rather you have to develop a defensive scheme, practice it every day, and get everyone to buy in and put in the efforts. Not just fouling to avoid easy baskets.
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
Seriously? You blame the coach? You think he told them, "Hey guys, all game we have been playing great help D, but on this last play, lets NOT do that. So if Dirk blows by Bosh, no one come to help..Ok, lets go!"
Or maybe, the players failed right there? I dunno
I think to be a good defensive team you have to have a vocal defensive leader. Not necessarily your star player, but someone who isn't scared to tell someone how it is. Obviously Dallas has Chandler, and Miami has Lebron/Wade. Hopefully Favors can come out of his shell and be that guy for us.
Well he failed by putting Bosh on him instead of Lebron or Haslem.
Bosh is by far their least clutch player. He dribbled the ball out of bounds on a low post iso with a 2 point (or 4 point) lead, and I just knew he was going to get owned when he was on Dirk for that last play.
I guess, but Bosh is still known for being a weak 1 on 1 defender. Haslem is at least tought and isn't going to give up anything that easy.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
The book on Dirk is you have to crowd him. That's not what you're going to get from Bosh. Nobody has the length to affect his shot anyway.