The Honesty of Transgender Identity

[One Brow]

Somebody once told me that if I do not use chopsticks in Vietnamese restaurant when eating Vietnamese dish that it is disrespectful to their culture. Well, sorry but I am using fork as it is way more convenient for me and I have no legal obligations to do it. Same with pronouns. Not going to use anything but he or she. Freedom of speech baby!

Yes, no one can force politeness on you, snowflake.

 

[fairweather]

'They' sucks. Too bad we're stuck with it.

I use it when it makes sense. "They is" does not. I'm not sure I've ever met a transgender person that hadn't chosen he or she.

 

[Zombie]

Can you provide examples of that terminology?

Off the top of my head, I'm instructed not to call our insurance products 'insurance', not to call fees 'fees,' that sort of thing.

 

[Archie Moses]

Alex Jones is a dangerous lunatic whose raison d'etre is harassing people in truly despicable ways. He should be in jail.

I won't argue that. I don't really know much about him. What I've read about him, I don't care for him.

 

[Siro]

Even with a sex change, I feel (in my experience) most transgender people are easy to identify because of their physical appearance often times has biological masculine or feminine traits. There are some that don't, but I still feel they should let people know they are trans.

I once went on a date with a trans. I met her online and she doctored her pictures to eliminate her masculine traits. When I picked her up, I immediately knew she was trans and it was very uncomfortable for me. I didn't want to be politically incorrect or make her feel bad - I know they have it hard and lots of struggles. But ultimately I was not interested in dating a trans and they hid that from me.

The story is longer, but basically I ended the date in the best way I knew at the time and I was respectful and understanding. It was incredibly awkward and she got upset and slammed my car door.

If you go out with a woman, then you find you're not attracted to her because of masculine features, that's not discriminatory. But if you go out with someone you find attractive, then get uncomfortable when you learn they used to be a man and break it off, then I can understand how that can be seen as discriminatory. It's kind of like going out with someone, then losing interest when finding out they're black but passing as white. The only difference is in cultural norms and expectations.

 

[One Brow]

Well, it does not mater how he appears to you. The fact is that he is a man. If you trying to tell me that same situation applies to so called gender neutral, well I am disagreeing.

Freedom of speech baby! Jordan gets to use the pronouns she feels are appropriate, why not I? Are you going politically correct on me?

 

[Siro]

I use it when it makes sense. "They is" does not. I'm not sure I've ever met a transgender person that hadn't chosen he or she.

I meant the use of 'they' as singular non-gender specific pronoun sucks. I hate when I have to use 'they' in that context. But it does happen a lot. For example when I'm talking about a baby whose gender I don't know. Some people say 'it', but that's not great either. Wish we had a gender neutral singular pronoun.

 

[MVP]

Yes, no one can force politeness on you.

It makes me uncomfortable, how is that polite to make somebody uncomfortable? You see, it goes both ways.

 

[Archie Moses]

If you go out with a woman, then you find you're not attracted to her because of masculine features, that's not discriminatory. But if you go out with someone you find attractive, then get uncomfortable when you learn they used to be a man and break it off, then I can understand how that can be seen as discriminatory. It's kind of like going out with someone, then losing interest when finding out they're black but passing as white. The only difference is in cultural norms and expectations.

It should have been shared with me beforehand out of respect imo. I'm not interested in dating transgender people because I desire a relationship with a female born female. To me, it wasn't discrimination. It was deceptive and disrespectful.

 

[Siro]

In Ethiopian restaurant we were told to use hands for eating. But only pick up food with right hand as left is for personal hygiene. Now that was cool eating!

That's hilarious, because Arabs have the same tradition, which I've always ignored. I even had a conversation with an uncle as a kid that went as follows:

Uncle: Why are you using your left hand to eat?
Me: Because I'm holding a knife in my right, and it's easier than cutting things with my left.
Uncle: But the left hand is used for personal hygiene, it's inappropriate.
Me: What personal hygiene? What are you talking about?
Uncle: You wipe your *** with your left hand...
Me: No I don't. I wouldn't have sufficient control wiping with my left hand.
/Uncle looks at me with horror.

 

[One Brow]

Like I've said in this thread before, I call people by what they want to be called. However, I don't believe Peterson should be fired and laws should be made to force someone to call someone by the pronouns they choose because their beliefs are validated too.

No one threatened to fire Peterson, and there are no such laws.

Ben Shapiro doesn't call transgender people by their pronouns (one thing I disagree with him on - even Steven Crowder respects trans enough to call them by their pronouns) and now is worried the left will ban him from Facebook, YouTube, etc because Alex Jones just did. Although Shapiro is nothing like Jones, but the progressive left doesn't care. They make their own rules, standards, labels.

Alex Jones regularly engages in libelous statements, like accusing Obama of being an active pedophile, and Facebook is a private corporation trying to enhance its marketability. Don't you believe in capitalism?

 

[MVP]

Freedom of speech baby! Jordan gets to use the pronouns she feels are appropriate, why not I? Are you going politically correct on me?

Well, you can certainly call him whatever you want on internet forum. But, if you would be an official somewhere where you would need to either address him officially, or issue some official paperwork, like visa - you would not be able to do that.
BTW, do "gender neutral" people have their sex listed on their drivers licence or passport as "it"? X? I? what is it?

 

[One Brow]

How about an onbvious fact that he is a man.

Peterson seems like a female to me.

 

[fairweather]

If you go out with a woman, then you find you're not attracted to her because of masculine features, that's not discriminatory. But if you go out with someone you find attractive, then get uncomfortable when you learn they used to be a man and break it off, then I can understand how that can be seen as discriminatory.

No difference between those things, as far as I'm concerned. Next thing you know, we'll have "compelled dating."

Some people say 'it', but that's not great either. Wish we had a gender neutral singular pronoun.

I think "it" works fine for the baby, but I suppose "ze" is a better long term solution.

 

[Archie Moses]

Absolute statements are to be generally avoided, I agree.



Coitus is biological, marriage or other long-term relationships are cultural.



Steven Crowder is another conservative commentator. I don't feel like debating the range of guests on Rogan, just pointing out that so far, you have pointed out a conservative podcaster and two socially conservative guests for the "vast arrange".



Why? What part of it was interesting?



What "unjust or prejudicial treatment" do I defend?



Argument by definition, how fun!

dis·crim·i·nate
/dəˈskriməˌnāt/
verb

• 1.recognize a distinction; differentiate:

dis·crim·i·na·tion
/dəˌskriməˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun

• 2.recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another:

You don't understand the difference between caramel and butterscotch?



You recognized a difference and used it to differentiate between cis-gendered females and trans-gendered females. That's the primary definition of "discriminate".

My whole point of naming Steven Crowder is because they got into a heated argument over something Rogan disagreed on and he's a conservative. Rogan has plenty of liberals on his show and has many liberal viewpoints. I think you think you know a lot about Rogan, his views and his guests, but you sound like Cowherd talking about basketball.

 

[One Brow]

'They' sucks. Too bad we're stuck with it.

I agree to a point.

 

[Gameface]

Even with a sex change, I feel (in my experience) most transgender people are easy to identify because of their physical appearance often times has biological masculine or feminine traits. There are some that don't, but I still feel they should let people know they are trans.

I once went on a date with a trans. I met her online and she doctored her pictures to eliminate her masculine traits. When I picked her up, I immediately knew she was trans and it was very uncomfortable for me. I didn't want to be politically incorrect or make her feel bad - I know they have it hard and lots of struggles. But ultimately I was not interested in dating a trans and she hid that from me.

The story is longer, but basically I ended the date in the best way I knew at the time and I was respectful and understanding. It was incredibly awkward and she got upset and slammed my car door. I feel I handled the situation better than what I'd imagine most would. One Brow can call this discrimination all he wants.

I think a trans person Should be upfront about that in a romantic situation. Maybe not just for a first date, but absolutely before intimacy or any kind of committed relationship. As much for their own safety as having respect for the person they are dating.

 

[One Brow]

It should have been shared with me beforehand out of respect imo. I'm not interested in dating transgender people because I desire a relationship with a female born female. To me, it wasn't discrimination. It was deceptive and disrespectful.

Why do you care if they were born female?

What if they had XY genotype, but were androgen insensitive, so that they were born with a female body? Should they disclose that to you as well?

 

[One Brow]

That's hilarious, because Arabs have the same tradition, which I've always ignored. I even had a conversation with an uncle as a kid that went as follows:

Uncle: Why are you using your left hand to eat?
Me: Because I'm holding a knife in my right, and it's easier than cutting things with my left.
Uncle: But the left hand is used for personal hygiene, it's inappropriate.
Me: What personal hygiene? What are you talking about?
Uncle: You wipe your *** with your left hand...
Me: No I don't. I wouldn't have sufficient control wiping with my left hand.
/Uncle looks at me with horror.

I believe limited access to clean water has been a factor in this culturally. I heard there is a similar understanding in India.

 

[MVP]

No one threatened to fire Peterson

Still, he received two warnings.
In response to the controversy, academic administrators at the University of Toronto sent Peterson two letters of warning, one noting that free speech had to be made in accordance with human rights legislation and the other adding that his refusal to use the preferred personal pronouns of students and faculty upon request could constitute discrimination. Peterson speculated that these warning letters were leading up to formal disciplinary action against him, but in December the university assured him that he would retain his professorship, and in January 2017 he returned to teach his psychology class at the University of Toronto