Dennis Lindsey's Biggest Error

[Handlogten's Heros]

Blakeney was an undrafted free agent and toiled in the DLeague for awhile.

He’s fun to watch. Plays with a lot of energy... maybe too much sometimes.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Going from out of the playoffs to the 2nd round of the playoffs in a year is working pretty ****ing well. Everything beyond that is outside of the team’s control.

Hill was a good trade... here is a hot take... the extension would not have been that bad either. He was mostly healthy and solid last year. Was great this year before the shoulder deal.

I’m not sure on the amount... but 10M of that was going to be excess cap space we had that year. So, 4/70 isn’t great obvi but he’d be better than Ricky by a wide margin. When he’s healthy he’s good and fits the system and personnel very well. I don’t know how bad his exit was... some have indicated he wasn’t the leader we thought but I’ve heard nothing concrete about what happened and if the bridge was completely burnt. I’d trade Ricky for him right now.

 

[mellow]

Quin Snyder and the Utah Jazz...

Life with Igor. 99 Wins and 65 losses (.60), and two trips to the conference semis.
Life without Igor. 87 Wins and 98 losses (.47), and two trips to the lottery.

 

[Alfalfa]

Just read Andy’s article on DL... I think the guy has a weakness for locking into an idea/player/strategy and just never deviating or pivoting.

He locks in on draft prospects and telegraphs his picks to Locke. Doesn’t make picks in second round because there is no one he loves.

In the article it literally says he’s keeping the powder dry... holy **** our powder has been dry for so long. He’s waiting and I’m afraid he is hell bent and locked in on Middleton.

Article also says they are analyzing the data on the lineup with Ricky Rudy Favs and they just don’t have enough sample... it’s been over a year... it worked well when Ricky shot wayyyyy over his career averages... even then the Jae lineup was better. Refuses to give up on the lineup... refuses to give up on Exum... has signed AB every year for like 5 straight years.

He locks in on guys and brings em back just wants to make it work. Brings in guys he knows in former teams... Hill, Diaw, Royce (from Baylor)... he has kind of a Thibs vibe with that.

Anyway based on the article we ain’t doin **** until the trade deadline... doesn’t even sound like it’s under any kind of consideration.

Hopefully the dry powder we have accumulated over the years gets used before the war is over. I admire his patience but I think he may be making some mistakes... second worst thing you can do is fail fast... the worst thing you can do is fail slow. There is value in thin slicing... in the startup world they say fail or succeed fast but whatever you do don’t hit the brakes on the way off the cliff. I fear we hit a good enough patch at some point to embolden DL to continue with Ricky and maybe even Favs next year.

I read that too, and I don't think anything will happen this year. And we'll have a hard time getting any good FAs in the offseason. He's full of excuses. Hard schedule. Mitchell missed some games. Blah blah blah.

20 games in, and we already have 2 historical losses. I can't stand it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I read that too, and I don't think anything will happen this year. And we'll have a hard time getting any good FAs in the offseason. He's full of excuses. Hard schedule. Mitchell missed some games. Blah blah blah.

20 games in, and we already have 2 historical losses. I can't stand it.

Like it can work for a while but what we are doing is kind of idiotic...

We have 2 huge building blocks one of which is kind of position flexible imo.

You should build everything to help those building blocks to perform at their highest level.

We have one elite fill in the gap guy on the wing in Joe.

We have 2 starters that are decent players but run in opposition to the building blocks.

So we can make those bad fits work... it doesn’t work because of them... it works in spite of them because of the other things. Sticking with that does not give us the best result now and does not give us data for future use on what would work better.

So why do we continue to do it... because they are here. Think of it this way... if we did not have Rubio and Favs would we be saying go get those guys? Would there be other guys available on expiring but similar contracts that we’d rather have?

I don’t know how much data DL needs... it is pretty clear we could do better but making changes might be awkward and require some short term pain. Tough to continue to blame injuries and not making shots for losses. We don’t have good shooters and are too offensively dependent on one guy because our other guys are limited. The schedule issue is totally legitimate... I didnt expect us to be that much better than we are... but the net rating and overall performance are indicators that are really troubling.

 

[Alfalfa]

He also mentioned that bit about how good we are at generating open shots. Which is a stupid thing to say when most of our shooters are intentionally left wide open. It sounded like management speak to me, and I kind of lost hope that meaningful adjustments will be attempted.

 

[LoPo]

He also mentioned that bit about how good we are at generating open shots. Which is a stupid thing to say when most of our shooters are intentionally left wide open. It sounded like management speak to me, and I kind of lost hope that meaningful adjustments will be attempted.

Very true. It's like back in the day watching Kobe stand inside the lane whenever Ronnie Brewer had the ball on the perimeter. But it was an open shot......

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I guess my frustration with Lindsey and the Jazz FO is that they never seem to be proactive in terms of taking risks to upgrade, particularly where we need it. What's the use of having cap flexibility, or "dry powder" if they are never used?

The FO plays it safe by signing below the radar types (e.g., O'Neale, Niang) but don't make any overt moves to improve, almost all of which inevitably include some level of risk. For example, two floor spreading big men expressed an interest in the Jazz [Mirotic and Bjelica (sic)], both of whom filled a identified and real need, and the FO preferred to avoid the risk and stand pat. (Quality players expressing an interest in the Jazz doesn't happen every day.) Then, while almost every other team in the WC was working to improve itself, the Jazz FO opted for "continuity," settling for signing Niang, re-signing Exum to a contract that he's unlikely ever to live up to, and re-signing Favors, who despite the "good guy" factor, simply doesn't fit with what the team appears to want to do. IMHO, we'd be much better off having signed Bjelica and not re-signed Favors, as much as I like the guy. Who here thinks that we'd be as bad off as we are now with Bjelica (who can actually shoot) rather than Favors? (Hint: I don't.) (Sorry, Exum simply lacks any kind of "it" factor. I'm officially off Exum island.)

I'm not advocating for making some crazy *** moves/trades, but we can't rely on a near miraculous turnaround similar to last year. Plus don't sell me the schedule, or tired legs excuse. Every team battles that; 30 and 50 point losses to mediocre teams, rampant turnovers, and sh** poor shooting game in and game out are not the result of tired legs but that something is fundamentally wrong with the current team composition.

Continuity is good as far as it goes, but when it is clearly not working, it's time for something else.

(Of course, if the Jazz DO turn things around, I'll happily eat all of my words.)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I guess my frustration with Lindsey and the Jazz FO is that they never seem to be proactive in terms of taking risks to upgrade, particularly where we need it. What's the use of having cap flexibility, or "dry powder" if they are never used?

The FO plays it safe by signing below the radar types (e.g., O'Neale, Niang) but don't make any overt moves to improve, almost all of which inevitably include some level of risk. For example, two floor spreading big men expressed an interest in the Jazz [Mirotic and Bjelica (sic)], both of whom filled a identified and real need, and the FO preferred to avoid the risk and stand pat. (Quality players expressing an interest in the Jazz doesn't happen every day.) Then, while almost every other team in the WC was working to improve itself, the Jazz FO opted for "continuity," settling for signing Niang, re-signing Exum to a contract that he's unlikely ever to live up to, and re-signing Favors, who despite the "good guy" factor, simply doesn't fit with what the team appears to want to do. IMHO, we'd be much better off having signed Bjelica and not re-signed Favors, as much as I like the guy. Who here thinks that we'd be as bad off as we are now with Bjelica (who can actually shoot) rather than Favors? (Hint: I don't.) (Sorry, Exum simply lacks any kind of "it" factor. I'm officially off Exum island.)

I'm not advocating for making some crazy *** moves/trades, but we can't rely on a near miraculous turnaround similar to last year. Plus don't sell me the schedule, or tired legs excuse. Every team battles that; 30 and 50 point losses to mediocre teams, rampant turnovers, and sh** poor shooting game in and game out are not the result of tired legs but that something is fundamentally wrong with the current team composition.

Continuity is good as far as it goes, but when it is clearly not working, it's time for something else.

(Of course, if the Jazz DO turn things around, I'll happily eat all of my words.)

The other thing is... the big value in hitting on the under the radar cheap signings is that it allows you to overpay (if need be) for other players in a higher talent tier. OP Jr. may not be worth his deal... but if you have rotation guys making peanuts it is easy to make it work cap wise. And he adds to the overall talent base.

We have used so much space on one year rentals for flexibility and have not had deals come around or have passed on deals that push us to the next level.

 

[One Brow]

For example, two floor spreading big men expressed an interest in the Jazz [Mirotic and Bjelica (sic)], both of whom filled a identified and real need, and the FO preferred to avoid the risk and stand pat.

"bad fit" Favors PER this season: 20.7
"good fit" Mirotic (who certainly fits in as well with the Pelicans): 20.3
"good fit" Bjelica: 17.2

I approve of taking risks for upgrades, but not just for sideways trades.

 

[stitches]

At the time I thought one of his biggest mistakes was the direction he chose after we lost Hayward and trying to compete instead of trying to just tank last year, especially after Gobert went down for 2 months. Later I was proven wrong in a way by the team going on an insane run... but now with the team playing like trash again, even with Gobert being on the roster for every single game, I've started wondering whether the real Jazz team is the one from the first part of last season (and this season so far) or the one from the second part of the season and the playoffs... is it really possible it was all a fluke/getting hot/abusing a ton of tanking teams? Because if it was a fluke and our real level is in the sub 500 level, IMO tanking would have been much better long term than winning 1 playoff series even if that run was real fun to watch.

 

[One Brow]

is it really possible it was all a fluke/getting hot/abusing a ton of tanking teams?

Perhaps the first two. We were also beating playoff teams, so not the third.

 

[Miggs]

Okay this needs to be said and this in no way is directed at anyone in particular and I’m guilty at times of what I’m about to criticize.

We haven’t an actual clue as to what offers are on the table or not. We haven’t a clue as to who has interest in coming here or not. Many players may really say, “Utahr? No ****ing way,” to their agent. We just don’t know. And we can’t be positive why DL did or didn’t pull the trigger on a deal, if a deal was even there to be made. We just can’t. No matter what Locke or some other Utah media guy may say.

****, if we renounce everyone we can to maximize cap space and then miss out on Kemba, Niko, Middleton, and every other tier one, two and even three guys we’d be happy in acquiring, then what? Not only would we have missed out on guys but we’ll have also dumped some quality players (Favors is you morons), flawed or not. We’ll have told the rest of the league we’re willing to put our own players on the chopping block, thus perhaps giving free agents an unsettling vibe about coming here, even if other teams like Miami have done the same same thing. For us, we don’t have the beaches and clubs and Pat Riley and four recent titles to stand behind and show off. We just don’t.

So yeah, in short, **** for DL isn’t always so simple. There are hundreds of moving parts and factors that go into his decision making. And we have no idea about what the absolute truth is about what’s unfolded lest we hear it from his mouth.

Now, renounce everyone, strip us bare, and go get Kemba and Portis, Dennis. No ****ing excuses!

 

[LoPo]

We haven’t a clue as to who has interest in coming here or not. Many players may really say, “Utahr? No ****ing way,” to their agent. We just don’t know.

This is 100% the reason why I'm always pushing for a trade.

We traded for Favors, and he has loved it here.
We traded for Rubio, and he has loved it here.
We traded for Crowder, and he has loved it here.
We drafted Mitchell, and he has loved it here.
We drafted Gobert, and he has loved it here.
We picked up Ingles on waivers, and he has loved it here.

Outside of that one year when we signed Boozer and Okur, we haven't ever attracted a great free agent to our franchise. Never. Never Ever.

If we want a player badly, we should try to trade for him and show him how awesome Utah is.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

"bad fit" Favors PER this season: 20.7
"good fit" Mirotic (who certainly fits in as well with the Pelicans): 20.3
"good fit" Bjelica: 17.2

I approve of taking risks for upgrades, but not just for sideways trades.

I make a perfectly good argument and you go and ruin it with data. Curse you.

Still, those comparisons only go so far, either one on the Jazz and the PER (or whichever advanced data one uses) may change. But point well taken.

 

[Spinoza]

Not drafting Giannis, which is probably every GM's biggest **** up who could have drafted him.

But it hurts worse that he was picked one slot after us. It's like Bowie/Jordan, Oden/Durant.

28 pts, 10 rebs, 8 assts, 2 stls in 26 minutes tonight. If you've watched the Bucks at all recently you'll know that Giannis is clearly the best player in the NBA right now. Absurd dominance both offensively and defensively.

 

[Coach Ellis]

But it hurts worse that he was picked one slot after us. It's like Bowie/Jordan, Oden/Durant.

28 pts, 10 rebs, 8 assts, 2 stls in 26 minutes tonight. If you've watched the Bucks at all recently you'll know that Giannis is clearly the best player in the NBA right now. Absurd dominance both offensively and defensively.

The thing that makes me most sad is that DL was one of the first to go over to Greece to look at him in person ahead of the draft. I remember watching an interview with DL somewhere after Giannis played in a game and his hype was getting established - and that was what made me look into the skinny kid from Greece that nobody could spell or pronounce his name in the first place. Was so irritated that they traded up for Burke.

There’s a lot of “what if’s” with the draft, but getting Giannis and Rudy both out of a weak draft has to be the biggest miss of DL’s career. He was a big part of the think tank that grabbed Kawhi Leonard based on his insane measurables. Giannis had that same vibe. Jazz absolutely should’ve been in “swing for the fences” mode. . . instead of saving that decision for Exum the following year.

 

[yamers]

lol so we're going to say igor was the real pupper master?

get over your selves. fools are getting dumber here by the hour.

 

[Tak]

Quin Snyder and the Utah Jazz...

Life with Igor. 99 Wins and 65 losses (.60), and two trips to the conference semis.
Life without Igor. 87 Wins and 98 losses (.47), and two trips to the lottery.

Yeah, Igor is now 4-17 for a whopping .19 as a Head Coach, I think he misses us more.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Lindsey's biggest error will clearly be letting the trade value for Favors diminish after Rudy Gobert emerged. He's a $20,000,000, integral piece of a contender but Utah cant get value out of him.

He'll walk like so many valuable bigs have done over the past 10 years.