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2019 Trade Deadline Discussion

LoPo said:
The way I see it, go all in on right now. We do our best by Gobert and Ingles to put the best team possible around them.

Trade Rubio and Niang for Jabari (I would want something else minor in return)
then
Trade Favors for Hardaway and Ntilikina

For this season and next, we have the following guys under contract:
Gobert
Donovan
Ingles
Hardaway
Jabari (if we want to bring him back next year)
Korver
Crowder
Ntilikina
Exum
Royce
Allen
Bradley
After next season, Korver retires and we make a decision on Crowder, Royce, Bradley and maybe Jabari.

So through Mitchell's rookie deal, we do our best by the aging roster that we have. Once Mitchell goes to sign a new contract in 2021, we have cap space to go in a new, younger direction led by him. By that time, Hardaway, Ingles, Gobert, Korver, Crowder, Jabari and Crowder are gone or are unrestricted free agents. And maybe we have proven to be a better, more attractive franchise that can attract another big fish or two to join Mitchell.
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This is horrible. Just horrible. WHY? In essence you are tying yourself to THJ. The next two off-seasons are your chance to get high end FA. After that you are done. After that you have to pay Mitchell and Gobert. Value aside(which I think is horrible in both of those trades), what you do with this trade is admit that you cannot do any better than Parker and THJ in FA in the next 2 free agencies. And if that's the case, we might as well close shop.
 
infection said:
You don't have to guarantee the second year.
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So his second year is none guaranteed? Also I think the jazz offensive problems are more severe than anything Parker is going to fix. He may seem like a decent to good offensive player, but his offense is flawed. Isn’t anyone worried about the fact that he’s out of the Bulls rotation? Sure, if the jazz trade for him he’ll have some offensive explosions, but he’s also going to put up as many stinkers, meaning the fact he doesn’t play a lick of defense, means the jazz continue to be dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Basically, he’s not fixing the jazz’s erratic play on offense and makes their defense worse
 
Thee jazz fan said:
So his second year is none guaranteed? Also I think the jazz offensive problems are more severe than anything Parker is going to fix. He may seem like a decent to good offensive player, but his offense is flawed. Isn’t anyone worried about the fact that he’s out of the Bulls rotation? Sure, if the jazz trade for him he’ll have some offensive explosions, but he’s also going to put up as many stinkers, meaning the fact he doesn’t play a lick of defense, means the jazz continue to be dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Basically, he’s not fixing the jazz’s erratic play on offense and makes their defense worse
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we still don't know if we need to guarantee his second year. It depends on whether Parker will have the leverage to ask for it, otherwise he has veto power on the trade.
 
LoPo said:
The way I see it, go all in on right now. We do our best by Gobert and Ingles to put the best team possible around them.

Trade Rubio and Niang for Jabari (I would want something else minor in return)
then
Trade Favors for Hardaway and Ntilikina

For this season and next, we have the following guys under contract:
Gobert
Donovan
Ingles
Hardaway
Jabari (if we want to bring him back next year)
Korver
Crowder
Ntilikina
Exum
Royce
Allen
Bradley
After next season, Korver retires and we make a decision on Crowder, Royce, Bradley and maybe Jabari.

So through Mitchell's rookie deal, we do our best by the aging roster that we have. Once Mitchell goes to sign a new contract in 2021, we have cap space to go in a new, younger direction led by him. By that time, Hardaway, Ingles, Gobert, Korver, Crowder, Jabari and Crowder are gone or are unrestricted free agents. And maybe we have proven to be a better, more attractive franchise that can attract another big fish or two to join Mitchell.
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I just threw up all over myself. This is a horrible take.
 
stitches said:
This is horrible. Just horrible. WHY? In essence you are tying yourself to THJ. The next two off-seasons are your chance to get high end FA. After that you are done. After that you have to pay Mitchell and Gobert. Value aside(which I think is horrible in both of those trades), what you do with this trade is admit that you cannot do any better than Parker and THJ in FA in the next 2 free agencies. And if that's the case, we might as well close shop.
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I will actually make a list why:

#1 - We have had one good free agent summer in the history of our franchise (Boozer and Okur) I have almost zero faith in signing a Middleton, Tobias, Mirotic, or Randle because half the league has loads of cap space.

#2 - We were one of a very few teams with space last summer, and we did nothing but bring back the same ole same ole. Even when we could get aggressive, we didn't.

#3 - We have amazing defenders (Gobert, Exum, Royce, Ingles) but we only have one great offensive player (Donovan). We need the offense that Hardaway and Jabari can provide more than the slightly above average defense and limited offense Favors and Rubio provide.

#4 - I have faith in a future that has Donovan, Frank and maybe Exum too.
 
LoPo said:
I will actually make a list why:

#1 - We have had one good free agent summer in the history of our franchise (Boozer and Okur) I have almost zero faith in signing a Middleton, Tobias, Mirotic, or Randle because half the league has loads of cap space.

#2 - We were one of a very few teams with space last summer, and we did nothing but bring back the same ole same ole. Even when we could get aggressive, we didn't.

#3 - We have amazing defenders (Gobert, Exum, Royce, Ingles) but we only have one great offensive player (Donovan). We need the offense that Hardaway and Jabari can provide more than the slightly above average defense and limited offense Favors and Rubio provide.

#4 - I have faith in a future that has Donovan, Frank and maybe Exum too.
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1. THJ and Parker are not anywhere close to Middleton and Tobias and Mirotic. There is a ton in between that you can get for less.
2. No, we didn't really have much capspace last summer
3. Jabari and Hardaway are NOT above average offensive players.
4. I don't... or rather... I have more trust in whatever we can get with our 40M of capspace than I do in Frank and Exum.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
I just threw up all over myself. This is a horrible take.
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I'm not sold on my idea of Rubio for Jabari. I think that all depends on how we value Rubio and how much we want Jabari. But you can read my 4 reasons why in my other post.

If we don't agree, that's fine. I just know we need more offense.
 
stitches said:
1. THJ and Parker are not anywhere close to Middleton and Tobias and Mirotic. There is a ton in between that you can get for less.
2. No, we didn't really have much capspace last summer
3. Jabari and Hardaway are NOT above average offensive players.
4. I don't... or rather... I have more trust in whatever we can get with our 40M of capspace than I do in Frank and Exum.
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1. I didn't say THJ and Parker were better than those other guys. However, having them is better than having nobody. My prediction is that we don't get any of them for a multitude of reasons.

2. Wrong - we could have had $22 million in cap space but we decided to bring back Favors and Thabo. https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/249237/Projected-2018-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams

3. I disagree.

4. The great thing about Exum and Frank with all our vets is that they aren't going to be forced into roles they aren't ready for. Financially, they still fit with my proposal. If they don't emerge by the time we reach the end of their deals, we let them go just like the old guard of Korver, Crowder, Hardaway, etc.

NOTE: my plan is that we go on a spending spree adding TWO big fish in 2021 instead of hoping and praying we get one decent fish in 2019 or 2020. Create the winning franchise then lure the fish. A mediocre small market lures nobody.
 
LoPo said:
1. I didn't say THJ and Parker were better than those other guys. However, having them is better than having nobody. My prediction is that we don't get any of them for a multitude of reasons.

2. Wrong - we could have had $22 million in cap space but we decided to bring back Favors and Thabo. https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/249237/Projected-2018-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams

3. I disagree.

4. The great thing about Exum and Frank with all our vets is that they aren't going to be forced into roles they aren't ready for. Financially, they still fit with my proposal. If they don't emerge by the time we reach the end of their deals, we let them go just like the old guard of Korver, Crowder, Hardaway, etc.

NOTE: my plan is that we go on a spending spree adding TWO big fish in 2021 instead of hoping and praying we get one decent fish in 2019 or 2020. Create the winning franchise then lure the fish. A mediocre small market lures nobody.
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1. I'm not saying we will get them. I'm saying we can get someone else in between Jabari(on his way out of the league) and Tobias Harris or Middleton(on their way to getting a max-ish offer in the summer). it's not either/or situation. There are a ton of better players than Parker and THJ that can be had for less.

2. No. We couldn't this was only true if we renounced pretty much half our roster... including Favors AND Exum who had 15M of caphold.

...
 
stitches said:
1. I'm not saying we will get them. I'm saying we can get someone else in between Jabari(on his way out of the league) and Tobias Harris or Middleton(on their way to getting a max-ish offer in the summer). it's not either/or situation. There are a ton of better players than Parker and THJ that can be had for less.

2. No. We couldn't this was only true if we renounced pretty much half our roster... including Favors AND Exum who had 15M of caphold.

...
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1. Okay, so name some names who could help us more than those two. And remember, we would have to compare those names to just keeping Rubio and Favors. If we don't do a trade like this, we probably end up just keeping the same thing because the alternative is a lateral move. But, please name some names of targets.

2. If we let Favors and Thabo walk, we have $7 million. Once we signed Exum, we would have had $12 million. You know who makes $12 million and I like better than Parker? Bjelica AND Randle. So yeah, we did have space we could have used.
 
Someone pointed out to me on the twitters that Parker already doesn't have his Bird or Early Bird rights and thus he doesn't have veto power on trades. Thus, ignore my arguments about him potentially vetoing the trade. Apologies for disseminating misinformation.:oops:
 
LoPo said:
I'm not sold on my idea of Rubio for Jabari. I think that all depends on how we value Rubio and how much we want Jabari. But you can read my 4 reasons why in my other post.

If we don't agree, that's fine. I just know we need more offense.
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Do you watch basketball? Or even follow basketball?
LoPo said:
1. I didn't say THJ and Parker were better than those other guys. However, having them is better than having nobody. My prediction is that we don't get any of them for a multitude of reasons.
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The jazz will never be good with that thinking. I’d rather strike out in the offseason then end up with Parker and THJ
LoPo said:
3. I disagree.
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Why? I want a reason, should be good and entertaining
LoPo said:
NOTE: my plan is that we go on a spending spree adding TWO big fish in 2021 instead of hoping and praying we get one decent fish in 2019 or 2020. Create the winning franchise then lure the fish. A mediocre small market lures nobody.
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By then we will be paying both Mitchell and Gobert. This makes no sense
 
Thee jazz fan said:
#1 Do you watch basketball? Or even follow basketball?

#2 The jazz will never be good with that thinking. I’d rather strike out in the offseason then end up with Parker and THJ

#3 Why? I want a reason, should be good and entertaining

#4 By then we will be paying both Mitchell and Gobert. This makes no sense
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#1 - everybody agrees we need more offense. Do you disagree? Do you watch basketball?

#2 - Getting nobody is better than getting a 21ppg scorer? I fail to see the logic. We have a bunch of solid role players who can't score. Losing two more of those guys (losing Favors and Rubio without replacing them) should also continue our struggles scoring the basketball.

#3 - Tim Hardaway scores 21 points per game shooting the ball 17 times per game making 40% of his shots. He plays on a team that doesn't have any other scoring option. So yeah, he's an above average scorer. Do you consider Donovan Mitchell an above average scorer? Tim Hardaway does every single offensive category better than Donovan this year. And he does it on a worse team.

#4 - We don't know for sure what Gobert will be worth in 2.5 years. For all we know, he's no longer a max player. He might take less to stay on to win that title he keeps talking about for us. If we do these deals I'm proposing, all of the salaries are off the books before we pay Donovan his max. So none of these deals impact his next deal OR moves we can make to make him happy about the time he signs that new deal.
 
Prior to Detroit picking up Harris he was viewed as okay but “empty calories” some lesser names are much better options than they appear sometimes... or they get in winning situations and you see them improve efficiency.
 
Random thought on the oft discussed OP Jr... is he more or less available after the Ariza trade? I think their salary issues are a little bit mitigated if they aren’t paying Oubre 9-15M a year... not sure they’d move Porter now.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Random thought on the oft discussed OP Jr... is he more or less available after the Ariza trade? I think their salary issues are a little bit mitigated if they aren’t paying Oubre 9-15M a year... not sure they’d move Porter now.
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Washington seems to be going all in on the current roster. I think they hold onto Otto Porter unless they still have a very bad record in early February. Wall, Beal, Ariza, Porter, Dwight has a lot of potential for the playoffs. I think they would have to be blown away by a trade offer to take it. Something like get them out of the luxury AND get an asset.
 
Tobias Harris is a pipe dream at this point. It isn't happening. I don't think we can trade for Hardaway or Porter either. If we max out Middleton I still think there's a chance for him.

This front office had very legitimate chances to bring in either Mirotic, Bjelica, and Randle for relatively cheap this past offseason and didn't do it in favor or keeping Sefolosha, Niang, & Exum. I don't think Favors was even needed to be dumped to bring on either of those 3.

I started to lose faith in Dennis Lindsey this past summer. My faith is continuing to waiver. He has to make some sort of splash move between now and the end of free agency this summer.
 
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