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2019 Trade Deadline Discussion

MilesDeep said:
For defensive prowess alone, Jrue would be a huge get for Utah. Throw in that he can score, shoot, and create and Anyone outside of Donovan and Rudy could and should be used to acquire someone of that magnitude. The others in the discussion are not on equal ground with Jrue, but would be nice pieces, and upgrades over the current roster. Mirotic is not a better player than Favors, but his fit with Rudy is better/different. Would there be instances where he wouldn't be playable for defensive reasons? Conley is nice and a better player than Rubio until his astronomical contract is considered, I wouldn't do this.
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What prowess. He has a career negative DBPM and his drtg ain't that good.

He also shoots threes about as good as Rubio.
 
Only 8 days to go!
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idestroyedthetoilet said:
What prowess. He has a career negative DBPM and his drtg ain't that good.

He also shoots threes about as good as Rubio.
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He's clearly improved on the defensive end over the last couple of years to the point that he was named to the First Team All Defense last year, somehow manages to have a positive DRPM this year despite playing with net negative defenders across the board outside of Davis (it's almost the same as Rubio's despite Rubio getting to play with the best defensive player in the league and a better defensive team in general), the team is 9.6 Points Per 100 worse off with Holiday off the floor on the defensive end alone, let alone the extra +5.1 Points Per 100 he brings on the offensive end (note - the Pelicans are worse either way when you take one or both of Jrue/Davis off the floor, but they've statistically been better with Jrue on/Davis off vs Jrue off/Davis on this season), and his tracking numbers on the perimeter are above average. He also passes the eye test when you watch him play, the Pelicans are just a disaster defensively outside of Jrue and AD this year, and he's shown that in the playoffs he is capable of completely shutting down All-NBA guards as his defense on Lillard/McCollum was a huge part of the reason why the Pelicans swept the Blazers in the 1st round last year. He has clearly developed into a great two way talent, and imo the only thing that really holds him back from being put up in the same tier as Butler or PG13 defensively is his size limitations.

His 3pt% is bad this year but I think a large part of that has to do with him having to carry the offensive load from a shot creation standpoint for the majority of the season with his only pass first PG being hurt most the season, AD missing various chunks of the season, and Mirotic missing up to about half the season now (he shoots 37.1% from deep on catch and shoot situations this season for example). Also despite missing various key players for basically the entire season after October and him shooting poorly from deep, he's still a significantly more efficient player than Rubio with a 55.7TS% compared to Rubio's 51.6%. To me he's just having to do a little bit more than what he's really capable of doing for the Pelicans right now, whereas in theory on the Jazz with Mitchell as the guy to take the tough shots, Ingles there as a secondary playmaker, and another dominant roll man in Gobert while also having a variety of spacing options you would be able to significantly lighten the offensive load Jrue would have to carry on the Jazz while simultaneously pairing two 1st team All Defense players together on what is already one of the most dominant defensive teams in the last few years.

Jrue is absolutely a no brainer addition to the Jazz in my opinion, I would trade Favors/Exum/Allen/Thabo/1st/2 2nds for Jrue and Mirotic, and maybe even another 1st if it was the difference between getting him or not to put Jrue on this team, and then figure out the rest later with a core of Mitchell/Holiday/Gobert locked in for the next few years with Crowder/Ingles/Korver/Royce/hopefully re-signed Mirotic as your key rotation guys. It's probably an overpay in a vacuum but I think it would need to be an overpay to pry Jrue from NOLA, and I think the ceiling of a Mitchell/Holiday/Gobert team is worth the price. He's also the kind of guy who fits the team identity and I think he'd be great for Utah both on and off the court.
 
idestroyedthetoilet said:
What prowess. He has a career negative DBPM and his drtg ain't that good.

He also shoots threes about as good as Rubio.
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Kosta Koufus has a DBPM of 2.1 ... Danny Green and Joe Ingles are 1.2 Eric Bledsoe and Beverly are .9...

Some things you need to watch... go watch what he did to Portland in the playoffs... dude was a monster on both ends.
 
Not the biggest Ricky fan, but here is my hot take... Ricky Rubio the next two years will be better than Mike Conley the next two years.

Mike has been the better player by a lot, but I'm not sure he will be going forward...
 
Sandman822 said:
He's clearly improved on the defensive end over the last couple of years to the point that he was named to the First Team All Defense last year, somehow manages to have a positive DRPM this year despite playing with net negative defenders across the board outside of Davis (it's almost the same as Rubio's despite Rubio getting to play with the best defensive player in the league and a better defensive team in general), the team is 9.6 Points Per 100 worse off with Holiday off the floor on the defensive end alone, let alone the extra +5.1 Points Per 100 he brings on the offensive end (note - the Pelicans are worse either way when you take one or both of Jrue/Davis off the floor, but they've statistically been better with Jrue on/Davis off vs Jrue off/Davis on this season), and his tracking numbers on the perimeter are above average. He also passes the eye test when you watch him play, the Pelicans are just a disaster defensively outside of Jrue and AD this year, and he's shown that in the playoffs he is capable of completely shutting down All-NBA guards as his defense on Lillard/McCollum was a huge part of the reason why the Pelicans swept the Blazers in the 1st round last year. He has clearly developed into a great two way talent, and imo the only thing that really holds him back from being put up in the same tier as Butler or PG13 defensively is his size limitations.

His 3pt% is bad this year but I think a large part of that has to do with him having to carry the offensive load from a shot creation standpoint for the majority of the season with his only pass first PG being hurt most the season, AD missing various chunks of the season, and Mirotic missing up to about half the season now (he shoots 37.1% from deep on catch and shoot situations this season for example). Also despite missing various key players for basically the entire season after October and him shooting poorly from deep, he's still a significantly more efficient player than Rubio with a 55.7TS% compared to Rubio's 51.6%. To me he's just having to do a little bit more than what he's really capable of doing for the Pelicans right now, whereas in theory on the Jazz with Mitchell as the guy to take the tough shots, Ingles there as a secondary playmaker, and another dominant roll man in Gobert while also having a variety of spacing options you would be able to significantly lighten the offensive load Jrue would have to carry on the Jazz while simultaneously pairing two 1st team All Defense players together on what is already one of the most dominant defensive teams in the last few years.

Jrue is absolutely a no brainer addition to the Jazz in my opinion, I would trade Favors/Exum/Allen/Thabo/1st/2 2nds for Jrue and Mirotic, and maybe even another 1st if it was the difference between getting him or not to put Jrue on this team, and then figure out the rest later with a core of Mitchell/Holiday/Gobert locked in for the next few years with Crowder/Ingles/Korver/Royce/hopefully re-signed Mirotic as your key rotation guys. It's probably an overpay in a vacuum but I think it would need to be an overpay to pry Jrue from NOLA, and I think the ceiling of a Mitchell/Holiday/Gobert team is worth the price. He's also the kind of guy who fits the team identity and I think he'd be great for Utah both on and off the court.
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This is a great post. I think you might be overpaying in that trade offer though. I don't see how Rubio wouldn't be involved in any deal for Jrue either. I can't really see either settling for a bench role.

I do like the idea of Jrue on the Jazz though. My only concern would be his injury history.
 
I think trading Ingles needs to seriously be on the table. How well is he going to age over the next 3-5 years? Hanging on to him because he’s awesome Joe isn’t prudent. If Joe, with Favors (and maybe another player) and a 1st can net us a major piece, we need to do it.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
I think trading Ingles needs to seriously be on the table. How well is he going to age over the next 3-5 years? Hanging on to him because he’s awesome Joe isn’t prudent. If Joe, with Favors and a 1st can net us a major piece, we need to do it.
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Delete
 
SCS said:
This is a great post. I think you might be overpaying in that trade offer though. I don't see how Rubio wouldn't be involved in any deal for Jrue either. I can't really see either settling for a bench role.

I do like the idea of Jrue on the Jazz though. My only concern would be his injury history.
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Yeah I'm about 99% sure it's an overpay but I think you really need to blow away NOLA with an offer to get them to move Jrue and a "fair" offer isn't really going to cut it even if they move Davis at the deadline. I'm also far less concerned about his health history than I am about guys like Conley/Griffin/etc.

I also think Rubio wouldn't care about coming off the bench as long as he still gets minutes, and Mitchell/Rubio/Holiday lineups are definitely workable for small stretches of games.
 
Sandman822 said:
He's clearly improved on the defensive end over the last couple of years to the point that he was named to the First Team All Defense last year, somehow manages to have a positive DRPM this year despite playing with net negative defenders across the board outside of Davis (it's almost the same as Rubio's despite Rubio getting to play with the best defensive player in the league and a better defensive team in general), the team is 9.6 Points Per 100 worse off with Holiday off the floor on the defensive end alone, let alone the extra +5.1 Points Per 100 he brings on the offensive end (note - the Pelicans are worse either way when you take one or both of Jrue/Davis off the floor, but they've statistically been better with Jrue on/Davis off vs Jrue off/Davis on this season), and his tracking numbers on the perimeter are above average. He also passes the eye test when you watch him play, the Pelicans are just a disaster defensively outside of Jrue and AD this year, and he's shown that in the playoffs he is capable of completely shutting down All-NBA guards as his defense on Lillard/McCollum was a huge part of the reason why the Pelicans swept the Blazers in the 1st round last year. He has clearly developed into a great two way talent, and imo the only thing that really holds him back from being put up in the same tier as Butler or PG13 defensively is his size limitations.

His 3pt% is bad this year but I think a large part of that has to do with him having to carry the offensive load from a shot creation standpoint for the majority of the season with his only pass first PG being hurt most the season, AD missing various chunks of the season, and Mirotic missing up to about half the season now (he shoots 37.1% from deep on catch and shoot situations this season for example). Also despite missing various key players for basically the entire season after October and him shooting poorly from deep, he's still a significantly more efficient player than Rubio with a 55.7TS% compared to Rubio's 51.6%. To me he's just having to do a little bit more than what he's really capable of doing for the Pelicans right now, whereas in theory on the Jazz with Mitchell as the guy to take the tough shots, Ingles there as a secondary playmaker, and another dominant roll man in Gobert while also having a variety of spacing options you would be able to significantly lighten the offensive load Jrue would have to carry on the Jazz while simultaneously pairing two 1st team All Defense players together on what is already one of the most dominant defensive teams in the last few years.

Jrue is absolutely a no brainer addition to the Jazz in my opinion, I would trade Favors/Exum/Allen/Thabo/1st/2 2nds for Jrue and Mirotic, and maybe even another 1st if it was the difference between getting him or not to put Jrue on this team, and then figure out the rest later with a core of Mitchell/Holiday/Gobert locked in for the next few years with Crowder/Ingles/Korver/Royce/hopefully re-signed Mirotic as your key rotation guys. It's probably an overpay in a vacuum but I think it would need to be an overpay to pry Jrue from NOLA, and I think the ceiling of a Mitchell/Holiday/Gobert team is worth the price. He's also the kind of guy who fits the team identity and I think he'd be great for Utah both on and off the court.
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Thanks. I havent seen much of him the last few years but always liked his game. Sucks he got injured so much, he was damn good in Philly.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Being loyal to an aging player is one of the worst things you can do in sports.
He’ll be 32 before next season.

He should be a very strong player for another year or two. After that? I’m not sure.
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Joe Ingles don't age bruh... he morphs and gets stronger... in 12 years he'll be the damned MVP.

When you pull up the trade machine his name ain't even on there... cuz no one would ever trade him.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
I think trading Ingles needs to seriously be on the table. How well is he going to age over the next 3-5 years? Hanging on to him because he’s awesome Joe isn’t prudent. If Joe, with Favors (and maybe another player) and a 1st can net us a major piece, we need to do it.
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I agree. I like Joe and think he is awesome.
But the only guys that are untouchable for me are Rudy and Spida

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Wes Mantooth said:
Being loyal to an aging player is one of the worst things you can do in sports.
He’ll be 32 before next season.

He should be a very strong player for another year or two. After that? I’m not sure.
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Nah you can't completely remove the human element from managing. For what Ingles has brought to this team, especially after Hayward's walkout, you stick with him even though he will be a burden by year 4.
 
Jazz4ever said:
Nah you can't completely remove the human element from managing. For what Ingles has brought to this team, especially after Hayward's walkout, you stick with him even though he will be a burden by year 4.
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Year 4 of his contract? Why will he be a burden?
 
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