Tobias Harris wants to come to utah

[fishonjazz]

Bad fit with Rubio and Gobert, like I said.

Also I was not convinced he was completely healthy enough to play more minutes.

Yes but you will never be convinced he is completely healthy.

He will always play low minutes because the paint is the realm of gobert. Our pf should stay out of it when gobert is playing.

Favors isn't as effective out of the paint as a good three point shooter

We will see favors play low minutes this season too if gobert remains healthy. I will guarantee it right now even without knowing who else will be on the roster.

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[jazzETX]

Maybe Harris wants to come here now because he'd be joining Gobert, Mitchell and Conley...

i thought possibly the same, but i think there was strong enough interest before that they should've done due diligence and waited to have that conversation

 

[infection]

Yes but you will never be convinced he is completely healthy.

He will always play low minutes because the paint is the realm of gobert. Our pf should stay out of it when gobert is playing.

Favors isn't as effective out of the paint as a good three point shooter

We will see favors play low minutes this season too if gobert remains healthy. I will guarantee it right now even without knowing who else will be on the roster.

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We’d rather use a really nice wrench as a makeshift hammer rather than exchanging the wrench for a moderately priced hammer and using the difference elsewhere.

But but... none of those hammers can also be a wrench.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Yes but you will never be convinced he is completely healthy.

He will always play low minutes because the paint is the realm of gobert. Our pf should stay out of it when gobert is playing.

Favors isn't as effective out of the paint as a good three point shooter

We will see favors play low minutes this season too if gobert remains healthy. I will guarantee it right now even without knowing who else will be on the roster.

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I guess we'll see. I think he'll play more minutes then he did last year per game with Conley. If he's on our roster. I'm starting to guess he won't be with the options available.

Offensively they don't always fit but they can with together. It's not like Gobert does much work in the paint. It's always helpful to have two good screeners on the court. Plus two good rebounders.

Plus the other half of the court they fit together perfectly on defense. Which is half the game.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's not like Gobert does much work in the paint.

Now I know you're trolling.
Gobert sets the record for dunks in a season = doesn't do much work in the paint.

He should enter the dunk contest if he was doing all those dunks from outside the paint!

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[Ron Mexico]

Honestly I'll be more sad about losing Exum than Favors if we land Harris. It would be worth it though.

Long term I think Exum can help this team more.

 

[Jingled]

Honestly I'll be more sad about losing Exum than Favors if we land Harris. It would be worth it though.

Long term I think Exum can help this team more.

That really surprises me because you're one of Favors biggest supporters on here.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Now I know you're trolling.
Gobert sets the record for dunks in a season = doesn't do much work in the paint.

He should enter the dunk contest if he was doing all those dunks from outside the paint!

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Off pick and rolls and cuts. He doesn't pound in the paint much. He isn't a post up guy. Those are the reasons he would need a big to help pull the other big away. In the pick and roll if Favors guy rotates to help that leaves Favors wide open for a dunk. Favors and Gobert are both decent at passing to each other in that situation.

 

[Ron Mexico]

That really surprises me because you're one of Favors biggest supporters on here.

I am a big fan of him. But his talents are easier to replace. Plus I think Exum still has a high ceiling. Favors will improve a little possibly but he is close to his ceiling.

Plus people are silly about their claims and disrespect of Favors on here.

 

[NAOS]

i thought possibly the same, but i think there was strong enough interest before that they should've done due diligence and waited to have that conversation

I guarantee that due diligence was done. There’s a zero percent chance that our FO hasn’t been in rich contact with his agent.

 

[fishonjazz]

Off pick and rolls and cuts. He doesn't pound in the paint much. He isn't a post up guy. Those are the reasons he would need a big to help pull the other big away. In the pick and roll if Favors guy rotates to help that leaves Favors wide open for a dunk. Favors and Gobert are both decent at passing to each other in that situation.

Lol.
If favors is in the paint (where he operates best) then his man is in the paint (even if favors is outside the paint his man is in the paint since favors isn't a threat) so favors guy doesn't even need to rotate to help. He is already there.

What you say about it favors guy rotates then favors is open for a dunk, you could say about almost anyone in the league except with many other players it could lead to a dunk or three. Not with favors though.

There is a reason we don't see lots of assists per game from gobert to favors.

I'm done here. It's like beating my head against a wall.

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[infection]

Lol.
If favors is in the paint (where he operates best) then his man is in the paint (even if favors is outside the paint his man is in the paint since favors isn't a threat) so favors guy doesn't even need to rotate to help. He is already there.

What you say about it favors guy rotates then favors is open for a dunk, you could say about almost anyone in the league except with many other players it could lead to a dunk or three. Not with favors though.

There is a reason we don't see lots of assists per game from gobert to favors.

I'm done here. It's like beating my head against a wall.

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Come on, man. I know you like trying new things. DL has been snorting lines of Faves of Steve Starks’ back. Why won’t you?

 

[fishonjazz]

Come on, man. I know you like trying new things. DL has been snorting lines of Faves of Steve Starks’ back. Why won’t you?

I have always noticed that gobert hands seem to magically improve whenever there is a stretch 4 on the court with him. My guess is that magic comes from a paint with less defenders in it. Making the passer have better lanes and vision to give gobert the ball and gobert having to contend for the pass against less defenders.

To use a football analogy, having favors in the game means you can have your safety (favors defender) over the top of the receiver (gobert) essentially double teaming him. It's not a true double team but favors defender knows to leave favors (who he already isn't really guarding all that closely) to go help.
Gobert is good enough to still be effective against this "double team", just like an Odell Beckham is, but would be even more effective with more one on one matchups. Just like a wide receiver would be more effective in one on one's with no safety help.

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[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Such crazy talk in here.

Favors minutes were reduced to keep him healthy throughout the year. Because he played basically three years in a row were too many minutes meant that he would be injured by the end of the year.

So, Gobert or no Gobert, Favors is on a permanent minutes restriction for the rest of his career. This is a big part of why he wants to stay in Utah. His body is being managed appropriately here.

 

[fishonjazz]

Such crazy talk in here.

Favors minutes were reduced to keep him healthy throughout the year. Because he played basically three years in a row were too many minutes meant that he would be injured by the end of the year.

So, Gobert or no Gobert, Favors is on a permanent minutes restriction for the rest of his career. This is a big part of why he wants to stay in Utah. His body is being managed appropriately here.

So you are saying that his minutes are low due to health?
Interesting that he plays more when gobert is out. I guess the minute restriction can kind of just come and go whenever.

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[Goodluckchuck]

I like the debate. Truth is our offense would be much better with Harris. But our defense would be much worse. In this day and age of NBA basketball, the offensive game is what wins championships. So I hate to see Favs go. But if you can get more offensive firepower you do it. And to all that is holy I will pray that Gobert never gets hurt. Cause if he does and we don’t have Favs. We ****ed!


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[infection]

I like the debate. Truth is our offense would be much better with Harris. But our defense would be much worse. In this day and age of NBA basketball, the offensive game is what wins championships. So I hate to see Favs go. But if you can get more offensive firepower you do it. And to all that is holy I will pray that Gobert never gets hurt. Cause if he does and we don’t have Favs. We ****ed!


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If Gobert gets hurt, we’re ****ed whether we have Favors or not. As I’ve said, we should be looking to raise our ceiling, not focus on raising our floor.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Interesting that he plays more when gobert is out. I guess the minute restriction can kind of just come and go whenever.

The Jazz have no chance to win when Gilbert is out unless Quinn plays Favors. But the FO probably views this unofficial restriction as more of a season-long thing.

But Favors went through three straight years of major minutes hell that led up to this. The year that he lost a lot of weight and got into better shape made no difference. His joints can’t take 30+ minutes for 82 .

 

[LoPo]

You get Tobias this year then we use the full MLE to get Favors back next summer.
We grow, learn and experience a great season. Add Favors back next summer.

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[Ron Mexico]

Lol.
If favors is in the paint (where he operates best) then his man is in the paint (even if favors is outside the paint his man is in the paint since favors isn't a threat) so favors guy doesn't even need to rotate to help. He is already there.

What you say about it favors guy rotates then favors is open for a dunk, you could say about almost anyone in the league except with many other players it could lead to a dunk or three. Not with favors though.

There is a reason we don't see lots of assists per game from gobert to favors.

I'm done here. It's like beating my head against a wall.

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Yes, you can say that about most bigs next to Gobert. That's one of the reasons many people work next to Gobert well offensively. He creates a lot of space through the pick and roll. Favors does as well. What Favors brings that many dont is elite defense, and elite roll option to go along with that. Oh and great rebounding on both ends of the court. Favors and Gobert both pass well. There is a reason Favors feeds Gobert the 4th most on our team despite hardly playing with him. Gobert feeds Favors the 5th most. If they actually played together more those numbers would go way up. Their assist numbers go up when they play with each other.


Facts are the stats say they are elite playing next to each other as long as their PG can shoot. Those 2 with Rubio are a +4.4. But when the PG is Neto or Mitchell was the PG they are +18, which is better than Neto or Mitchell with Gobert and Crowder. Previous year they were +31.5 with Neto, which again was better than when Neto played with Gobert and Crowder. The year before that they were +44.4 with Neto. They were +23 when Ingles played PG. They were +10 with Hill. Also to point out how good JJ was that year they were +24 when they played with JJ. The same trends go for back further.

On top of that in the playoffs last year in the playoffs our starting lineup with Gobert and Favors when Rubio could actually shoot for a minute was +23 and was our most used and best lineup that year. Compared to when Crowder came in for Gobert (2nd most used lineup) we were -11.6. When Mitchell played PG those playoffs with those 2 we were +15.5. Those are amazing numbers considering we lost the second round pretty badly.

Added to that we also create the most open looks in the NBA even when Favors and Gobert play together. We just need players who can make those shots, like Conley.

Again, I am all for trading for Harris because I think he is a good fit and a good player. But a lot of you have made up this false narrative about Favors playing with Gobert and the "bad fit." But facts say otherwise. I think a lot of people just see what they want to see and cant look past how much of a wrench Rubio through into our system. He was a terrible fit besides the couple months were he actually shot well in his 2 years here.

Conley having 2 elite pick and roll options is going to be amazing if that is how it pans out.

But personally if we can land a really good wing and a really good PF (someone 80% as good as Favors) then we are a better team. Or if we can get a player like Harris who is equally good as Favors just in a different way then that is a good option as well.