Not possible to compete with your repetitiveness.
The official "let's impeach Trump" thread
- Thread starter colton
- Start date
Not possible to compete with your repetitiveness.
His take on Ukraine is both inaccurate (already nicely corrected by Colton) and amazingly naive. So we should take his outrage with a big grain of salt.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
this is outstanding. Thank you for making things so clear.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
This seems relevant...
Honestly, I hope the Democrats pump the brakes on impeachment. There’s still far too many leads to the president’s crimes to follow. Now it appears Nunes was involved too? Come on.
I’d like to see Bolton testify. I’d like to see Mulvaney, Pompeo, and Guiliani subpoenaed. Tell them they have until x date to testify or you’re tacking obstruction of justice on impeachment. If Parnas Desires to testify, I'd like to see him given the opportunity to do so. Even better if he has receipts. And this Nunes story needs to be given appropriate attention. It’s absolutely unacceptable to me that Nunes might’ve been engaged in this criminal scheme. The precedent set by not following up on this would be catastrophic to our democracy. Is there anyone in the GOP not criming right now? My goodness.
What’s to lose? Especially if the Senate is going to merely rush through it and not take it seriously at all. Might as well drag it out in the House and get everyone on record.
Honestly, I hope the Democrats pump the brakes on impeachment. There’s still far too many leads to the president’s crimes to follow. Now it appears Nunes was involved too? Come on.
I’d like to see Bolton testify. I’d like to see Mulvaney, Pompeo, and Guiliani subpoenaed. Tell them they have until x date to testify or you’re tacking obstruction of justice on impeachment. If Parnas Desires to testify, I'd like to see him given the opportunity to do so. Even better if he has receipts. And this Nunes story needs to be given appropriate attention. It’s absolutely unacceptable to me that Nunes might’ve been engaged in this criminal scheme. The precedent set by not following up on this would be catastrophic to our democracy. Is there anyone in the GOP not criming right now? My goodness.
What’s to lose? Especially if the Senate is going to merely rush through it and not take it seriously at all. Might as well drag it out in the House and get everyone on record.
Last edited:
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Again, Democrats, pump the brakes! Slow down. Why rush? Even if it takes another month or two. There’s just far too much here to not investigate. History demands we flush this out.
I honestly think the best outcome, short of Trump having a stroke or deadly heart attack (fingers crossed), is that the house impeaches, the senate does not convict and Trump loses the election in convincing fashion.
Red
Well-Known Member
Well, but let's consider the origins of the "Ukraine did it" defense being used by Trump, and supporters like Nunes:
https://themoscowproject.org/dispat...lleged-russian-military-intelligence-officer/
"During the impeachment proceedings, congressional Republicans—especially ranking member Devin Nunes—have repeatedly advanced the conspiracy that the real collusion in 2016 was between the Democrats and Ukraine. This theory matches a conspiracy that President Donald Trump appeared to be referencing during his now-infamous call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on July 25.
But Trump didn’t come up with this theory on his own: Recently revealed Mueller investigation documents indicate that it is part of a Russian disinformation campaign that came directly from an alleged Russian intelligence officer".
(You can read the details on the origins of this theory at the above link. The NY Times published a major story on this fact Friday night as well. See here: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/us/politics/ukraine-russia-interference.html)
Can you understand why the Russians might want to blame Ukraine for the 2016 election interference? Ukraine is at war with Russia. Putin wishes to enhance instability and chaos in the political life of the United States. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". How could Putin not want to turn the US against Ukraine? And, sadly, he could count on Trump to simply lap up a conspiracy theory. Republicans and Trump embracing the "Ukraine did it" theory would be music to Putin's ears. Can you understand this?
Trump, Nunes, and Lindsey Graham have all adopted a false narrative invented as a ploy by the Russians. Whatever else one calls such a decision on their part, it would be very hard for me to call it "pro-American". If the entire Republican Party is going to adopt this line, siding with our chief geopolitical rival of the past 70 years, it's very hard for me to understand how history will judge that favorably.
But there is likely some truth to this predicted judgement of history that @silesian suggests. If one is deliberately and ignorantly embracing the position invented by and promoted by the Russian intelligence services, a position adopted for the express purpose of turning American against American, well, whether one is conscious of it or not, one is embracing the position promoted by our number 1 geopolitical adversary. That's pretty hard to interpret as very patriotic, is'nt it?
Fiona Hill, who likely, as one of our top Russian experts, knows more about these matters then you, or me, or Giuliani, or Nunes, (whom @The Thriller has now pointed out was in Europe himself, digging into this "Ukraine did it" nonsense) pointed this out in her testimony:
The Republicans are adopting Putin's position. Hardly very patriotic at all. Yesterday, Putin stated, to paraphrase him "Thank God they are not blaming Russia for interference anymore, now they are blaming Ukraine". That is not where we want to be. And it should not be very hard to understand how this all plays into Putin's hands, as he works on more disruption of our electorate in 2020.
Last edited:
smear campaigns against ambassadors are unethical but not impeachable. Can be pursued with reporting and other investigations.
Everyone needs to watch this from Red:
Fiona Hill, who likely, as one of our top Russian experts, knows more about these matters then you, or me, or Giuliani, or Nunes, (whom @The Thriller has now pointed out was in Europe himself, digging into this "Ukraine did it" nonsense) pointed this out in her testimony:
The Republicans are adopting Putin's position. Hardly very patriotic at all. Yesterday, Putin stated, to paraphrase him "Thank God they are not blaming Russia for interference anymore, now they are blaming Ukraine". That is not where we want to be. And it should not be very hard to understand how this all plays into Putin's hands, as he works on more disruption of our electorate in 2020.
———————-
Putin owns trump. He is playing chess and outsmarts trump with strategy while trump lives in a world of tiddly winks and petty politics
Putin is winning the battle to weaken the USA.
trump makes us weak.
voting for trump makes us weak
y’all need to see past trump’s insecure bravado and open your eyes to reality.
Fiona Hill, who likely, as one of our top Russian experts, knows more about these matters then you, or me, or Giuliani, or Nunes, (whom @The Thriller has now pointed out was in Europe himself, digging into this "Ukraine did it" nonsense) pointed this out in her testimony:
The Republicans are adopting Putin's position. Hardly very patriotic at all. Yesterday, Putin stated, to paraphrase him "Thank God they are not blaming Russia for interference anymore, now they are blaming Ukraine". That is not where we want to be. And it should not be very hard to understand how this all plays into Putin's hands, as he works on more disruption of our electorate in 2020.
———————-
Putin owns trump. He is playing chess and outsmarts trump with strategy while trump lives in a world of tiddly winks and petty politics
Putin is winning the battle to weaken the USA.
trump makes us weak.
voting for trump makes us weak
y’all need to see past trump’s insecure bravado and open your eyes to reality.
JazzyFresh
Banned
I just hope you guys realize that once your party votes for impeachment the Senate will have the ball in their court. It'll be a nice change to not have Schifty badgering, lying because he will be under Oath. Same as Hunter, and a good chance your whistleblower. I hope you guys realize that Trump has actually benefitted and is rising in approval rating and other polls. I hope you guys realize that those in favor of impeachment have declined pretty drastically. I hope you guys realize you just dug your own grave.
Just something to think about today. Have a wonderful Saturday and go Utes and go Jazz!!!
Just something to think about today. Have a wonderful Saturday and go Utes and go Jazz!!!
typical, it is about the politics and not about right and wrong.
and sure, trump is now wildly popular because of impeachment.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
more whining about process.....
and duh, senate republicans won’t grow a pair. But it is good that you are connected to reality on at least this one fact.
JazzyFresh
Banned
Its called checks and balances dude. Something you are obviously against. I'm honestly not sure what your angry tirade was about but that was my point. The house had it's chance. Now it's the Senates. Checks...and...Balances
Stew on that. I'm out.
JazzyFresh
Banned
Jonah
Well-Known Member
There is an excellent article in the current issue of The Atlantic by Adam Serwer on Trump’s corruption and the necessity for his impeachment. I'll quote at some length but it is well worth the ten or fifteen minutes to read the full article here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/trumps-conspiracy-against-democracy/602464/
"Trump and his advisers sought to rig the 2020 election by forcing a foreign country to implicate the then-Democratic front-runner in a crime that did not take place. If the American people could not be trusted to choose Trump on their own, Trump would use his official powers to make the choice for them."
"It was, in short, a conspiracy by Trump and his advisers to keep themselves in power, the exact scenario for which the Framers of the Constitution devised the impeachment clause. This scheme was carried out by Trump-appointed officials, and by the president’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, running a corrupt back channel aimed at, in his words, “meddling in an investigation.” And it came very close to succeeding. As Brian Beutler writes, “Had the whole scheme not come to light in a whistleblower complaint, and Trump not released his hold on aid to Ukraine, we might have awaken [sic] one morning to a blaring CNN exclusive about international corruption allegations against the Democratic presidential frontrunner and his party.”
"As the Trump-appointed U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland testified Wednesday, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky “had to announce the investigations. He didn’t actually have to do them, as I understood it.” And as the U.S. official David Holmes told the House Intelligence Committee, Sondland had told him that Trump was merely concerned about “‘big stuff’ that benefits the president, like the, quote-unquote, ‘Biden investigation’ that Mr. Giuliani was pushing.”
"This point is crucial. Trump was not concerned about “corruption” in Ukraine—his own Pentagon and State Department had certified that Ukraine had taken sufficient steps to root out corruption. Nor was Trump particularly interested in an actual investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden—what he wanted was a public accusation that he could use to cripple a political rival’s aspirations. Trump was not defying the bipartisan war lobby in an effort to extricate the U.S. from foreign entanglements, and he was not engaged in a dispute over policy with unelected bureaucrats pursuing their own agenda, because he was fundamentally uninterested in the policy in question, except in that it might be exploited to benefit him personally."
"Trump saw an opportunity to strong-arm a weaker country into helping him win reelection, he abused his presidential authority to coerce it into doing so, and then he and his advisers sought to hide what they had done in order to maximize the public impact of the conspiracy. This plot, spearheaded by Giuliani, had already drawn credulous coverage from sympathetic reporters, and would likely have succeeded had the anonymous whistle-blower not registered a complaint exposing the scheme on September 9, which forced the Trump administration to release the aid to Ukraine on September 11."
We "should not lose sight of why the president is being impeached, and it is not because of a good-faith dispute over Ukraine policy. Trump and his advisers conspired to rig the 2020 election on his behalf, scheming to defraud the American people of a free and fair election. A genuine republic cannot survive chief executives who utilize their powers to make anyone who might challenge their authority into a criminal by extorting weaker entities into leveling false charges at their political rivals. Indeed, the republic’s Founders foresaw such a circumstance, and created the impeachment clause as a last resort against it. The high crime that the president has committed is not against Ukraine, but against America.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/trumps-conspiracy-against-democracy/602464/
"Trump and his advisers sought to rig the 2020 election by forcing a foreign country to implicate the then-Democratic front-runner in a crime that did not take place. If the American people could not be trusted to choose Trump on their own, Trump would use his official powers to make the choice for them."
"It was, in short, a conspiracy by Trump and his advisers to keep themselves in power, the exact scenario for which the Framers of the Constitution devised the impeachment clause. This scheme was carried out by Trump-appointed officials, and by the president’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, running a corrupt back channel aimed at, in his words, “meddling in an investigation.” And it came very close to succeeding. As Brian Beutler writes, “Had the whole scheme not come to light in a whistleblower complaint, and Trump not released his hold on aid to Ukraine, we might have awaken [sic] one morning to a blaring CNN exclusive about international corruption allegations against the Democratic presidential frontrunner and his party.”
"As the Trump-appointed U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland testified Wednesday, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky “had to announce the investigations. He didn’t actually have to do them, as I understood it.” And as the U.S. official David Holmes told the House Intelligence Committee, Sondland had told him that Trump was merely concerned about “‘big stuff’ that benefits the president, like the, quote-unquote, ‘Biden investigation’ that Mr. Giuliani was pushing.”
"This point is crucial. Trump was not concerned about “corruption” in Ukraine—his own Pentagon and State Department had certified that Ukraine had taken sufficient steps to root out corruption. Nor was Trump particularly interested in an actual investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden—what he wanted was a public accusation that he could use to cripple a political rival’s aspirations. Trump was not defying the bipartisan war lobby in an effort to extricate the U.S. from foreign entanglements, and he was not engaged in a dispute over policy with unelected bureaucrats pursuing their own agenda, because he was fundamentally uninterested in the policy in question, except in that it might be exploited to benefit him personally."
"Trump saw an opportunity to strong-arm a weaker country into helping him win reelection, he abused his presidential authority to coerce it into doing so, and then he and his advisers sought to hide what they had done in order to maximize the public impact of the conspiracy. This plot, spearheaded by Giuliani, had already drawn credulous coverage from sympathetic reporters, and would likely have succeeded had the anonymous whistle-blower not registered a complaint exposing the scheme on September 9, which forced the Trump administration to release the aid to Ukraine on September 11."
We "should not lose sight of why the president is being impeached, and it is not because of a good-faith dispute over Ukraine policy. Trump and his advisers conspired to rig the 2020 election on his behalf, scheming to defraud the American people of a free and fair election. A genuine republic cannot survive chief executives who utilize their powers to make anyone who might challenge their authority into a criminal by extorting weaker entities into leveling false charges at their political rivals. Indeed, the republic’s Founders foresaw such a circumstance, and created the impeachment clause as a last resort against it. The high crime that the president has committed is not against Ukraine, but against America.”
Curious that you think this 6th grade civics trivia is some great insight.
Wow, you are so far into an alternate reality that I fear there is no hope for you. Just about everything you say here has already been refuted by others in this very thread. But for the record, "the stupid conspiracy theory that's not even worth mentioning" that I was referring to is the CrowdStrike server thing. It not clear if that is also what you were talking about.
One last attempt at getting through to you, focusing on your last paragraph. Do you think attempted robbery is a crime? Do you think attempted murder is a crime? Do you think attempted bribery is a crime? Do you think attempted extortion is a crime? If the answer to any of those is no, why not?
Last edited: