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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

NPC D4617 said:
I swear. Im with you guys now. I dont want to be with Russia on this. I want to be with the good guys. I am helping you and our cause now. I see the light. Your logic is undeniable.

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If true, you've achieved quite the turn around. In the original Trump/Russia thread from the summer of '16, I think I titled it "Is Russia trying to help Trump?", you stated, correctly, that the US has interfered in the domestic politics of other nations(chiefly via our CIA), and that, basically, Putin interfering was a case of "what goes around, comes around". I believe you were of the opinion that we should actually be grateful to Putin.

Your take was actually my introduction to the presence of Americans who seemed to just shrug their shoulders and think having our democracy attacked by the new genre of cyber warfare, and by our chief geopolitical adversary, was nothing. My concern was never a nuclear exchange with Russia, though who wants another Cold War, but rather simply defending the US when attacked. I don't believe lying down and saying "we got it coming" is the appropriate response.
 
Zombie said:
Lmao. I remember when some people were certain this IG report was going to blow the doors down on the election interference investigation and totally clear Trump. I am not surprised to find out this is not the case.
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Yes, but the content of Durham's short statement, (and the fact that he is not through investigating makes issuing a statement really unusual, IMO), makes it seem possible that his report will not agree with Horowitz at all regarding the predication to investigate. Durham stated yesterday that his access to foreign sources, untapped by Horowitz, caused Durham to disagree with Horowitz that the FBI's predication was justified. And Barr has more control over Durham's investigation as well.
 
The Thriller said:
Obama didn’t do anything to stop russian interference. And that Obama should’ve announced publicly prior to the election about Russian interference.

Definitely could’ve done more. But Hannity omitted McConnell’s role in that. And besides, don’t we all know how Hannity would’ve responded had Obama warned the public about Russian election interference?
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Some clarification here. The Obama administration did in fact issue a public statement on Russian interference. It came very late, virtually one month prior to Election Day:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07...omeland-security-and-office-director-national
 
Red said:
don't believe lying down and saying "we got it coming" is the appropriate response.
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This kind of response is especially stupid because it's essentially saying Russia's attack on the US hurts the state in an abstract sense and not the people in it. We the people certainly didn't have it coming imo.
 
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Here are two questions that I’ve seen kicked around online recently:

1. Should Democrats slow down on impeachment? Or would that play into Trump’s hands?

2. Should Democrats obstructed this recent trade deal, like republicans would’ve done had the president been Obama or Clinton?
 
The Thriller said:
Here are two questions that I’ve seen kicked around online recently:

1. Should Democrats slow down on impeachment? Or would that play into Trump’s hands?

2. Should Democrats obstructed this recent trade deal, like republicans would’ve done had the president been Obama or Clinton?
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1) Yes; in my opinion they should wait until the court rulings force people to testify.

2) No.
 
My gf's parents live in Florida and drive out to see us once or twice a year and stay for about a month. They're great people and nice to have around (although a month is a long, long time.) That said, they're huge Trumpers and religiously watch Fox News. They just left a few weeks ago. While here, they would ask me why I don't like Trump or think he should get impeached. I'd tell them my opinion and they would laugh at me and get super defensive. I told her dad Trump is a dishonest person and has the temperament of a child. He asked me what did Trump lie about. I would tell him and he would just blow it off like I was making it up. I'd hear them talk about what's going on in the news, how crazy Democrats are and how great Trump is and I'd just learned to bite my tongue. They're is no arguing with these people.
 
sirkickyass said:
Even if that means that it doesn't happen until the 2021 Supreme Court term? It's clear the legal strategy behind refusing to testify is about running out the clock rather than prevailing on the merits.
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Beat me to it. The last court ruling regarding a Trump witness testimony took eight months to get.
 
sirkickyass said:
Even if that means that it doesn't happen until the 2021 Supreme Court term? It's clear the legal strategy behind refusing to testify is about running out the clock rather than prevailing on the merits.
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No, I'm assuming that things would be rushed as in U.S. v. Nixon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Nixon. So maybe it would take a couple of months, but a couple years. And maybe the Supreme Court wouldn't even take the case, but would just defer to the lower court's decision. If it did come to the point where the Supreme Court took the case but without rushing it, then I would say proceed immediately at that point.
 
sirkickyass said:
Even if that means that it doesn't happen until the 2021 Supreme Court term? It's clear the legal strategy behind refusing to testify is about running out the clock rather than prevailing on the merits.
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Zombie said:
Beat me to it. The last court ruling regarding a Trump witness testimony took eight months to get.
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I understand these arguments. They were made by Rep Schiff earlier this week. A good point. I wanted to hear what you guys thought because:

I listened to Dr. Kim Wehle on the Bulwark a week or so ago and she explained how Democrats could fast track these cases to compel testimony from Mulvaney, Pompeo, and Bolton. Here’s her article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...mocrats-need-better-subpoena-strategy/602782/
Which is why House Democrats’ milquetoast response to widespread defiance of congressional subpoenas is both perplexing and disturbing. When faced with credible evidence of serious misconduct, Congress has a constitutional duty to hold the president accountable on behalf of the people. Yet House leaders have psyched themselves out of fully exercising that duty.

There’s no reason House Democrats could not have pursued lawsuits to compel compliance with all of the subpoenas while at the same time maintaining the brisk pace of the impeachment inquiry thus far. Courts can move quickly—but only if asked.

Democrats might be betting that widespread defiance of subpoenas at the president’s behest bolsters the case for an article of impeachment for obstruction of justice. Another concern might be that, even if courts rule swiftly and consistently that former and current employees lack blanket immunity from testifying, some might still show up and refuse to speak on the basis of executive privilege—leaving Congress empty-handed despite protracted litigation.


Nevertheless, the House should fight hard for access to the full story about the president’s Ukraine shenanigans, and not let the executive branch win by default. Some current and former executive-branch officials, including Ambassador Gordon Sondland and former National Security Counsel expert Fiona Hill, have testified in spite of White House efforts to stonewall Congress. Others, including former Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, have done so despite intimidating tweets from the president of the United States. Aggressive litigation on all subpoenas would persuade more witnesses to do the same, while showing support for the courageous people who have already complied.

Even if some House subpoenas end up stuck in litigation for months, the chamber can move forward with impeachment anyway. The result, in short, will be no worse than the status quo
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colton said:
No, I'm assuming that things would be rushed as in U.S. v. Nixon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Nixon. So maybe it would take a couple of months, but a couple years. And maybe the Supreme Court wouldn't even take the case, but would just defer to the lower court's decision. If it did come to the point where the Supreme Court took the case but without rushing it, then I would say proceed immediately at that point.
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exactly, this isn’t the first time the courts have had to compel testimony or evidence.

So what’s the truth here? It seems to me pretty dumb that one needs to impeach and successfully remove a president to hold him/her accountable in investigations.
 
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