candrew
Well-Known Member
Not to mention burns out an offensive line that has to spend 12-15 seconds every play blocking while Vick runs from sideline to sideline.
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Not to mention burns out an offensive line that has to spend 12-15 seconds every play blocking while Vick runs from sideline to sideline.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Agreed. IMO he's the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning.
Also a great point by Candrew about how running QB's take a toll on their offensive lineman as well. Brown Notes, I completely disagree with you that guys like Vick, Newton, etc. had it too "easy" in High School and College and they tend to fail in the NFL because they don't want to put the work in. I promise you that nobody is currently working harder at becoming a great NFL QB than Tim Tebow. That doesn't mean he's going to become one. I think the reasons guys like that fail have all been brought to light in some of the recent posts in here. While Mike Vick may keep a DC awake at night, he also exacts a huge toll on his body and the bodies of his offensive teammates while he freelances.
I'm not saying you need a Bledsoe, Marino-type of stone footed QB who lives in the pocket. Mobility is not a bad thing but guys like Favre, Elway and Young all learned to use their mobility effectively while making their living inside the pocket. And while Steve Young may have been "stuck" behind Montana, IMO he still wasn't a "great" QB until he learned that pulling the ball down and running after your 1st read is covered is not always the best idea and yes, it took him a few years as a full time starter to figure that out.
I laugh at this because you know who was the highest 'prospect' that year..... Ryan Leaf. More GM's said they would take Leaf over Manning that year.
It's a crapshoot for the most part and there are only a select few with that talent to be a Manning, Vick, Brees, Brady, Roethlisberger, Farve, ect.
Is Luck that guy? I say its way to early. Before mid season last year I bet maybe 1 person on this board could have told you anything about Luck. Now, because of the media and Harbaugh's switch in the off season, Luck is the MAN.
By the way... the Steelers looked good on Offense and Defense last night.
O line we had a few injuries but both are OK.
Ben and the QB's looked Solid
They took away Wallace but other WR stepped up as well as the RB's out of the back field
Redman is legit and is the compliment to Mende
Defensively we didn't have our starting 2 corners and Gay is not the answer but I LOVED (Being a Michigan fan) seeing Warren get time. I feel he just earned himself at least a Dime position, if not Nickle.
Vick sucks
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Cope Wrote:
You laugh at it? Peyton probably would have been the #1 overall pick had he came out the year prior as a Junior. I do remember early on in the evaluation process the Colts were debating Manning/Leaf but they didn't entertain the idea for too long. Manning was pretty much their guy the whole time. I also think you're being EXTREMELY liberal in saying more GM's said they would take Leaf over Manning. Usually, GM's don't go on record with those types of comments and I'm pretty certain you won't be able to find comments made by every GM in the NFL at the time. But if you can, more power to ya.
Nobody is ever a certainty, but he is easily the closest to being the "full package" since Peyton. He's got size, arm-strength, smarts, already plays in a Pro-Style offense, etc. Prospects are never a sure thing, but then again, I never claimed he was a sure thing. I simply said IMO he's the best QB prospect since Peyton.
You caution about people getting carried away too early with Luck only to turn around and put this much stock into a Week 2 Pre Season game? Priceless.
You laugh at it? Peyton probably would have been the #1 overall pick had he came out the year prior as a Junior. I do remember early on in the evaluation process the Colts were debating Manning/Leaf but they didn't entertain the idea for too long. Manning was pretty much their guy the whole time. I also think you're being EXTREMELY liberal in saying more GM's said they would take Leaf over Manning. Usually, GM's don't go on record with those types of comments and I'm pretty certain you won't be able to find comments made by every GM in the NFL at the time. But if you can, more power to ya.
Nobody is ever a certainty, but he is easily the closest to being the "full package" since Peyton. He's got size, arm-strength, smarts, already plays in a Pro-Style offense, etc. Prospects are never a sure thing, but then again, I never claimed he was a sure thing. I simply said IMO he's the best QB prospect since Peyton.
You caution about people getting carried away too early with Luck only to turn around and put this much stock into a Week 2 Pre Season game? Priceless.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Hyperbole.
Vick's pretty much a strict pocket passer now but ran like crazy, and was essentially handed the keys last year, because the Eagles offensive line was that shaky. Kolb would have not only been less successful than Vick but would have gotten killed.
Brown Notes
Well-Known Member
Colt threw 3 more TDs, I think I could get used to this kind of competence. What's funny is Detroit has 2 DBs that were Browns 2 years ago. Sorry, Detroit. Eric Wright and B Mac are not very good. Mac is probably better.
Edit: I don't know why it's becoming such a big issue of pocket passers vs legs. Obviously I prefer guys that can move, but the biggest thing is being able to make a play when it counts, regardless of how you do it.
I love Peyton Manning. I don't think there has ever been a QB better at manipulating a defense and checking plays at the line. He, to my mind (apologies to any Brady fans) is the ultimate pocket passer of all time. I put him over Marino who I did watch BTW.
But my favorite QB(that I watched) ever is Steve Young. That guy had it all. IMO if Montana had just retired in favor of Young early on there would be no question of best ever. I mean, besides Otto.
Edit: I don't know why it's becoming such a big issue of pocket passers vs legs. Obviously I prefer guys that can move, but the biggest thing is being able to make a play when it counts, regardless of how you do it.
I love Peyton Manning. I don't think there has ever been a QB better at manipulating a defense and checking plays at the line. He, to my mind (apologies to any Brady fans) is the ultimate pocket passer of all time. I put him over Marino who I did watch BTW.
But my favorite QB(that I watched) ever is Steve Young. That guy had it all. IMO if Montana had just retired in favor of Young early on there would be no question of best ever. I mean, besides Otto.
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It helps to have a great team that makes plays and wins games.
Montana is higher Young on the All-Time list because he has more Superbowl wins.
They both had some great teams, Young just happened to run into some pretty good teams after Montana left.
Dallas and Green Bay were the two that annoyed me most because they seemed to be the 2 teams that would knock the Niners out of the playoffs.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
I have no love or hate for the 9ers so I think I would qualify as pretty unbiased. I watched them during that era and I'd have to say it was pretty clear Joe Montana was the better QB of the 2. You say Young ran into good Cowboy and Packer teams as if it's some sort of justification that Young didn't win more titles. Joe Montana won his titles during the era of Joe Gibb's Redskins, Mike Ditka's Bears, and Bill Parcells' Giants. Those were some pretty impressive regimes.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Those Dallas teams would steamroll any of those teams you mentioned in my opinion. Their o-line was sick. Aikman and Emmitt and Moose. Irvin and Harper and Novacek. Their defense was just as good. Insane speed and explosiveness, especially off the defensive line. Men amongst boys in many ways. I'm not giving Young a pass. But he had it tougher in my opinion. He also had to sort of prematurely retire unfortunately so we'll never know.
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candrew
Well-Known Member
Aaron Rodgers is not a pure pocket passer. I don't care how bad your running game is, when your QB leads the team in rushing yards on the season, the guy has got some legs and knows how to use them.
While there haven't been many (or any?) great pocket passers that could also run, that doesn't mean that an ability to run is an impediment in anyway.
Ben Roethleiaskjdab;ok also runs quite a bit.
While there haven't been many (or any?) great pocket passers that could also run, that doesn't mean that an ability to run is an impediment in anyway.
Ben Roethleiaskjdab;ok also runs quite a bit.
Boondocksaint27
Active Member
As Dtol could vouch, I HATE the Packers. Hate them. That being said, Rodgers is exactly what I would want in a QB. mobility when he needs, can throw with touch, can throw with power, and makes good decisions. IMO he is the best QB in the NFL right now. I would take mobility and an average arm over no mobility and a big arm.
Neither of them are "pure" pocket passers, but I view them more as pocket passer who can make plays outside of the pocket when necessary, opposed to guys who have to be outside the pocket to make plays.
Also, how ******* dumb can the Raiders get? 3rd round pick on Pryor? If I was an Oakland fan I would kill Al Davis.
Just go outside the stadium and you may get killed....
Not completely worthless and worth the 'gamble' if you are looking for him to ride a few years. Wasn't that they are doing with Tebow? Same situation and you cant look at him starting.
I will say this.. I would have loved to see Pryor in Auburns offense not Ohio States. I think he would have put up just as good of numbers as the #1 pick in the 1st round.
No, Cam is much more physically imposing and a better leader. Pryor would look average in the SEC West.
Says who? Which is which below?
6'5'' - 236 Lbs - 4.36 40 Time - Strong Arm - Completed 65% of Passes - 5.6 YPC Rushing
6'5'' - 248 Lbs - 4.59 40 Time - Strong Arm - Completed 66% of Passes - 5.6 YPC Rushing
As I said... 3rd round supplemental draft isn't much to give up if you are looking to develop the kid... better leader for Newton? Are you going off of the one year at Auburn or his JUCO teams the previous 2 years in Texas? Physically imposing? 12 LBS heavier or .23 slower in the 40?
Just sayin... college is about what offense you are in. Prior screwed up going to Ohio State because he wanted to PROVE he could run a pro style offense. He was signed with Michigan (And looking back I'm glad Ohio State paid more to get him) but I wonder how he would have done in Rich Rod's offense and if he would still have a job if he was there.
As I said, one played in the SEC, one didn't. One won a National Championship, one didn't.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Does anybody in the league office know that Tom Brady didn't play in the SEC or win a National Championship? Obviously that's the measuring stick we're dealing with now.