Coronavirus

[Avery]

Certain states were always going to have various peaks and valleys and that's nothing new.

What I find irritating is country after country have seen their overall numbers actually go down as their citizens and government have been working collaboratively to limit spread. In the states, our citizens and government are so politically divided that we can't effectively get out of the hump. It just prolongs the misery.

We would absolutely be in a better state had Trump been the example and worn a mask and instructed others to. We'd still have the virus around, but I have no doubt it would be a downward trend vs. reality.

 

[The Thriller]

A couple of states with the the rise in cases are, quite possibly purely by coincidence, seeing huge spikes in pneumonia this year over previous years (Florida comes to mind) without these cases being classified as covid19.

Also, wasn't there a huge rush to get proper machinery 6-8 weeks ago? If that machinery was collected and distributed, wouldn't the number of deaths go down with proper treatment? I have heard there has also been clarifications on various treatment methods (how/when to use the ventilator, etc.).

Of course, as the actual medical professional, your opinion, [should you ever choose to stop trying to play Socrates on a message board--which generally works poorly, as the Socratic method requires a degree of non-verbal communication] would be superior to mine.

I believe florida has been caught many times cooking the data to appease their Trumpy governor and undercount cases

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/12/rebekah-jones-florida-coronavirus/

 

[Beer]

Utah just had its second highest day in record 496, has seen its positivity rate double 4 percent to 9 percent, and its ICU capacity increase from 42 percent to 58 percent in just 3 weeks.

Around Memorial Day a “bad” day was 200 new cases. In fact, we had only seen 200 or more cases 5 times prior to Memorial Day. Since Memorial Day, we’ve seen 300+ new cases in 12/17 days.

from personal experience, I’ve seen mask wearing go from 75 percent of people wearing them at stores to 25 percent. Parks were previously closed and now they’re open and no one is social distancing. Dinning in is now an option at restaurants, churches are permitted to have face to face services, and movie theaters are open. Lastly, schools were closed and school sponsored sports were forbidden. Now? They’re completely allowed and operating as normal. Every day we have super spreader events at schools where hundreds of students, coaches, and parents meet for workouts and tournaments. I believe Snow College is Having a tournament where hundreds even thousands will be on campus:

https://snowbadgers.com/sports/2013/2/4/FB_0204135213.aspx?path=football

With businesses returning to normal and sports, it’s not hard to know where this is going. We’re taking the Arizona and Texas approach rather than the new Zealand or South Korea approach.

Just about over 50%? Lets all Fugazi ourselves now!?!?!? Sorry, old, sick, unhealthy, humans are supposed to die when things to go 100% correctly for them. "Life's a bitch and then you die" - Nas. The fact that cases are rising at x rate but hospitalizations are only rising at y rate show's a logical person that this was lack of data, knowledge, and fear mongering. If you are sick, fat, old, take care of your self. Not my god damn problem.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Certain states were always going to have various peaks and valleys and that's nothing new.

What I find irritating is country after country have seen their overall numbers actually go down as their citizens and government have been working collaboratively to limit spread. In the states, our citizens and government are so politically divided that we can't effectively get out of the hump. It just prolongs the misery.

We would absolutely be in a better state had Trump been the example and worn a mask and instructed others to. We'd still have the virus around, but I have no doubt it would be a downward trend vs. reality.

The mixed messaging, like the "don't wear a mask" to "everyone should wear a mask all the time" stuff, has been frustrating. At this point I think most people should go about their lives with reasonable pre-cautions. Wear masks in stores... avoid larger crowds... etc.

The other thing I'm tired of is all the people on social media talking about if you don't do this or that then you are murdering old people. You know who else is murdering old people... old people! When I go out I see a ton of old people... no masks... couples... in non-essential places. My wife's parents are among the worst... those were the ones I was most concerned with protecting.

I think as a country you were going to have 2-4 weeks of fairly strict compliance before fatigue set in... the messages and preparations in those weeks didn't get us far enough along. So we will limp forward with the current plateau and politicians will only care about the data that supports whatever side they are on... Our country is dumb and we are lead by morons... some have Rs by their names some have Ds but most of them gives zero ***** about truth or the people they serve.

 

[The Thriller]

The mixed messaging, like the "don't wear a mask" to "everyone should wear a mask all the time" stuff, has been frustrating. At this point I think most people should go about their lives with reasonable pre-cautions. Wear masks in stores... avoid larger crowds... etc.

The other thing I'm tired of is all the people on social media talking about if you don't do this or that then you are murdering old people. You know who else is murdering old people... old people! When I go out I see a ton of old people... no masks... couples... in non-essential places. My wife's parents are among the worst... those were the ones I was most concerned with protecting.

I think as a country you were going to have 2-4 weeks of fairly strict compliance before fatigue set in... the messages and preparations in those weeks didn't get us far enough along. So we will limp forward with the current plateau and politicians will only care about the data that supports whatever side they are on... Our country is dumb and we are lead by morons... some have Rs by their names some have Ds but most of them gives zero ***** about truth or the people they serve.

That's a pretty cynical outlook. Most Democrats and many Republicans have sided with science and have let the health professionals lead the way. Govs DeWine and Hogan have been remarkably consistent with their messaging.

While I think we have some pretty immature federal (Trump) and state/city leaders (Kemp/DeSantis/Abbot/Ducey/DeBlasio), I don't necessarily think we're "incapable" of beating this virus. Far more countries are doing a better job of beating it than we are. That gives me hope that we just need to look at what they’re doing right. Do you think Canadians, Italians, Germans, or South Koreans have longer attention spans than we do or something?

If we need to improve our health care structure, then let's do it. What's stopping the House and Senate from enacting universal health care right now?
If we need to shut down the entire country for 3 weeks and provide paychecks to many in the population, let's do it. Canada provides its citizens with $2,000 dollars per month to not work. Why can't we?
If our federal government needs a change, then let's do it. Our leaders aren't called by god to rule forever.

I just don't understand why we're so defeatist these days. We would've never defeated Japan or gone to the moon with the cynical and defeatist attitude I see so often these days. Nihilism is so strong when civic participation is needed.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That's a pretty cynical outlook. Most Democrats and many Republicans have sided with science and have let the health professionals lead the way. Govs DeWine and Hogan have been remarkably consistent with their messaging.

While I think we have some pretty immature federal (Trump) and state/city leaders (Kemp/DeSantis/Abbot/Ducey/DeBlasio), I don't necessarily think we're "incapable" of beating this virus. Far more countries are doing a better job of beating it than we are. Do you think Canadians, Italians, Germans, or South Koreans have longer attention spans than we do or something?

If we need to improve our health care structure, then let's do it. What's stopping the House and Senate from enacting universal health care right now?
If we need to shut down the entire country for 3 weeks and provide paychecks to many in the population, let's do it. Canada provides its citizens with $2,000 dollars per month to not work. Why can't we?
If our federal government needs a change, then let's do it. Our leaders aren't called by god to rule forever.

I just don't understand why we're so defeatist these days. We would've never defeated Japan or gone to the moon with the cynical and defeatist attitude I see so often these days. Nihilism is so strong when civic participation is needed.

Its not the attentions span per se... its the idea that we are quarantining and social distancing without much progress and without a goal. You can't ask people to shut down... without some sort of timeline before people will get restless. If you want people to shelter in place, wear masks, shut down everything that is non-essential... then you better have definitive instructions and a timeline. I think people can deal with really tight restrictions if there is a light at the end of the tunnel...

I'm cool wearing a mask... I'm cool with shutting down areas where there are large crowds... I'm cool washing my hands... I'm cool working from home... for a while. I'm just tired of people shaming others that are going back to work after months of this... or condemning politicians that are allowing things to open up. When I go to the store I see a ton of people in the "at risk" group out... they aren't protecting themselves. Don't shame others, with less at stake, for living their lives.

I'm just saying you have Newsome out here saying 25M Californians will get the virus in the next 8 weeks... others saying its nbd and its a really bad flu. Its the fact that our governments aren't being intelligent and every story is over-politicized. And so it isn't that I'm defeated, but I am saying "**** it... I'll be reasonable, but I'm not going to be militant".

 

[The Thriller]

Its not the attentions span per se... its the idea that we are quarantining and social distancing without much progress and without a goal. You can't ask people to shut down... without some sort of timeline before people will get restless. If you want people to shelter in place, wear masks, shut down everything that is non-essential... then you better have definitive instructions and a timeline. I think people can deal with really tight restrictions if there is a light at the end of the tunnel...

I'm cool wearing a mask... I'm cool with shutting down areas where there are large crowds... I'm cool washing my hands... I'm cool working from home... for a while. I'm just tired of people shaming others that are going back to work after months of this... or condemning politicians that are allowing things to open up. When I go to the store I see a ton of people in the "at risk" group out... they aren't protecting themselves. Don't shame others, with less at stake, for living their lives.

I'm just saying you have Newsome out here saying 25M Californians will get the virus in the next 8 weeks... others saying its nbd and its a really bad flu. Its the fact that our governments aren't being intelligent and every story is over-politicized. And so it isn't that I'm defeated, but I am saying "**** it... I'll be reasonable, but I'm not going to be militant".

Thanks for the response.

just curious, have you written to any of your state reps this? Have you written to your governor? Have you written to anyone in Congress?

I think it’s hard for our leaders to know what people want and need if they’re not hearing from us.

in the past Two month I’ve called and emailed my congressional reps and senators 3 times. Yet, I haven’t contacted my governor yet I bitch about him almost everyday. Probably should contact herbert and tell him that I believe we should go back to orange, get rid of in house dining (they’ve even gotten rid of curbside lately), shut down high school sports, and Mandate masks. Otherwise, utah is going to start seeing 1,000 new cases daily.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Thanks for the response.

just curious, have you written to any of your state reps this? Have you written to your governor? Have you written to anyone in Congress?

I think it’s hard for our leaders to know what people want and need if they’re not hearing from us.

in the past Two month I’ve called and emailed my congressional reps and senators 3 times. Yet, I haven’t contacted my governor yet I bitch about him almost everyday. Probably should contact herbert and tell him that I believe we should go back to orange, get rid of in house dining (they’ve even gotten rid of curbside lately), shut down high school sports, and Mandate masks. Otherwise, utah is going to start seeing 1,000 new cases daily.

No... I am yelling at clouds mostly.

I just think its funny that Gov. Newsome says we will have 25M cases in 8 weeks and when we are well under 200k cases after 12 weeks he feels a need to make Californians wear masks indoors. I would think we already won based on his numbers compared to actual.

I was militant for weeks with distancing... we flattened the curve... I will wear a mask, wash, etc. because I view it like a safety belt in the car... easy to do and seems like it will prevent some unnecessary pain. I feel like we are being asked to not drive the car... and if you do then you are an old people killer who has no soul... Meanwhile every grandma and grandpa are still out there on the road.

 

[The Thriller]

No... I am yelling at clouds mostly.

I just think its funny that Gov. Newsome says we will have 25M cases in 8 weeks and when we are well under 200k cases after 12 weeks he feels a need to make Californians wear masks indoors. I would think we already won based on his numbers compared to actual.

I was militant for weeks with distancing... we flattened the curve... I will wear a mask, wash, etc. because I view it like a safety belt in the car... easy to do and seems like it will prevent some unnecessary pain. I feel like we are being asked to not drive the car... and if you do then you are an old people killer who has no soul... Meanwhile every grandma and grandpa are still out there on the road.

good post. I see what you mean.

 

[Avery]

I had given Herbert high marks for their early response, but revisiting those grades.

I'm actually fine moving small counties to green with little to no cases, but we moved to yellow way too quick here in the valley. By the same accord, way too many citizens who just don't care anymore by not wearing masks or social distancing.

 

[The Thriller]

Highest day for utah, 586 new cases

https://www.ksl.com/article/4676710...vid-19-as-9-counties-move-to-green-risk-level

we’ll be hitting 600-800 new cases daily next week. And unless things change, 1,000 new cases per day in July. #MAGA

 

[The Thriller]

Nice #MAGA

 

[Beer]

Highest day for utah, 586 new cases

https://www.ksl.com/article/4676710...vid-19-as-9-counties-move-to-green-risk-level

we’ll be hitting 600-800 new cases daily next week. And unless things change, 1,000 new cases per day in July. #MAGA

Not seeing current hospitalizations of those new cases? Was 155 yesterday, which is not an issue at all.

 

[Avery]

Highest day for utah, 586 new cases

https://www.ksl.com/article/4676710...vid-19-as-9-counties-move-to-green-risk-level

we’ll be hitting 600-800 new cases daily next week. And unless things change, 1,000 new cases per day in July. #MAGA

Strolled out to Harmons today and purposefully counted masks vs. non masks. Was 6 masks to 26 non-masks.

Drove home and saw crammed splash pads, team sports, people closely dining, etc. Social distancing is effectively done-zo here.

It's just irritating. I hate wearing masks, but do it to protect myself and others. Hate not going to places to eat, but do so to protect myself and others. Problem is that people are effectively over it.

What's worrisome to me is that the positive % metric is a leading indicator of an outbreak. That number has effectively doubled recently.

 

[infection]

Not seeing current hospitalizations of those new cases? Was 155 yesterday, which is not an issue at all.

I work for a hospital with ~400 beds. 11 COVID patients as of yesterday.

 

[The Thriller]

Strolled out to Harmons today and purposefully counted masks vs. non masks. Was 6 masks to 26 non-masks.

Drove home and saw crammed splash pads, team sports, people closely dining, etc. Social distancing is effectively done-zo here.

It's just irritating. I hate wearing masks, but do it to protect myself and others. Hate not going to places to eat, but do so to protect myself and others. Problem is that people are effectively over it.

What's worrisome to me is that the positive % metric is a leading indicator of an outbreak. That number has effectively doubled recently.

Agreed. What’s really obnoxious is that these people will whine about how they’re tired of social distancing and using masks. Yet, their attitude and actions only prolong it.

Don’t like masks and social distancing? Who does? So let’s do it now (short term sacrifice) for a long term gain.

 

[Beer]

I work for a hospital with ~400 beds. 11 COVID patients as of yesterday.

Just checked, actually dropped 1 patient hospitalized overall. So 149 in the entire state. I'm sure Thriller is annoyed he can't scare the **** out of everyone with that # though.

 

[The Thriller]

Just checked, actually dropped 1 patient hospitalized overall. So 149 in the entire state. I'm sure Thriller is annoyed he can't scare the **** out of everyone with that # though.

That's weird. That's not what the Dnews says:

In Utah, 24 more people were also hospitalized for the novel coronavirus. Now, 149 patients are in the state’s hospitals receiving care for the disease.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6...daily-record-586-new-confirmed-cases-3-deaths

According to the state, 60.5 percent of ICU beds are now occupied, which is up from the 48 percent we had at Memorial Day. Not exactly the trend we want:

https://coronavirus-dashboard.utah.gov/#hospitalizations-mortality

Do you have alternative data? Could you post it? Where are you getting your information from? Remember, just because you see something on Facebook doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Beer]

That's weird. That's not what the Dnews says:



https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6...daily-record-586-new-confirmed-cases-3-deaths

According to the state, 60.5 percent of ICU beds are now occupied, which is up from the 48 percent we had at Memorial Day. Not exactly the trend we want:

https://coronavirus-dashboard.utah.gov/#hospitalizations-mortality

Do you have alternative data? Could you post it? Where are you getting your information from? Remember, just because you see something on Facebook doesn't mean it's true.

Sorry, not good at mathematics. I am good at determining whether we should actually be scared though. And 149 in the ENTIRE STATE is not scary not matter how many people get it.

 

[infection]

That's weird. That's not what the Dnews says:



https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6...daily-record-586-new-confirmed-cases-3-deaths

According to the state, 60.5 percent of ICU beds are now occupied, which is up from the 48 percent we had at Memorial Day. Not exactly the trend we want:

https://coronavirus-dashboard.utah.gov/#hospitalizations-mortality

Do you have alternative data? Could you post it? Where are you getting your information from? Remember, just because you see something on Facebook doesn't mean it's true.

The more important question is how many of those ICU beds are COVID. I know that, as of yesterday, one of the largest hospitals in the state had a total of 4 people in the ICU with COVID. Not only are there a lot of ICU beds in this hospital, but there are multiple ICUs. And, as I've stated previously, every hospital's census was at records lows because of COVID and as things open back up, you'll see bed occupancy return toward normal. I mean, this is like Trump boasting about jobs numbers because people who were essentially furloughed returned back to work. They weren't new jobs. This is the same thing.