This is a loss.

[Gameface]

I don't care who wins. This is a loss.

The U.S. has shown who they (we) are.

We're the nation that started with slavery. We're the nation that didn't let women vote. We're the nation that slaughtered indigenous people. We're the nation that propped up dictators and fascists all around the world. We're the nation that when black people said that their live matter we said "you're blocking our streets, therefore we're justified to kill you."

When we have an opportunity to say "that's not who we are" we basically say "okay, that's is actually who we are."

We're not special. The United States is not special. There is nothing here that can't be had somewhere else. There is nothing about our character or our spirit that sets us apart.

America is average. All you rural people, you're just like the rural people all over the world. There's nothing extra about you. You're just a rural person. They have those other places too. They are just like you. Your gun is super cool, but no one cares. There are guns all over the place. Your gun isn't special.

Enjoy. Any one of us can live here or we can live somewhere else. There is no reason to pick this place. There is no special advantage to living here... unless you want to be a racist yokel. If that's the case then this is your special golden age. Take advantage!

 

[JazzGal]

I've had a difficult time coming to this same opinion. I grew up with whitewashed history taught in schools, a religion that taught that the US was a country favored by God, and that we are the leader of the world.

Since I started thinking and learning for myself, I've realized what a flawed country we are and have always been. We are nowhere close to the ideals the founding fathers hoped for, and seem determined to move no closer to reaching those ideals. We do good things, we do bad things. We are not exceptional, we are just louder than most.

And yet I'm still glad I live here, although there are plenty of other places that would have suited just as well. And there are certainly worse places that I'm happy to have avoided.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[candrew]

This is pretty much how I feel. Even if Biden ekes this out two things are readily obvious

If it wasn't for Covid Trump would have run away with this. Hell, he might have done better than he did in 2016.

Win or lose, the Trump "brand" will survive. Someone smarter and slicker and with less baggage than Trump will pick up the playbook in 2024 and run a fake populist message mixed with racist dog whistles and we'll have to go through this **** all over again.

 

[JazzGal]

Dan Rather a few minutes ago:

"We awaken to a country in pain, deeply divided, and in search of its soul. That we have an election with razor-thin margins in several states is not a complete anomaly in our history. That the chasms between us feel so fraught and so alienating does feel uniquely precarious;.

There was no wave, although if the votes turn out in a certain way in the final counting Biden could win a healthy number of states. And let's start with a basic fact this morning: a Biden presidency is a completely different destiny for America than a continuation of what we've had. And there seems a fair - maybe even good - chance that he will prevail in the Electoral College.
Regardless, there are a lot of dangerous days ahead. Maybe I am too optimistic, but I don't think that the worst fears of violence or stopping the vote count will be realized. I will believe our institutions will hold.

The question that does loom is what's next? Why did so many support Trump with all that he has done? I don't think there is a single answer to that question. At the same time, one can also ask why did so many vote to reject an incumbent president? That has proven a difficult bar in American history. There are many answers to that question as well.

I don't minimize the challenges we are facing. The struggle for justice and the truth seems more difficult than many had hoped. But that doesn't lessen the importance of the mission. Quite the contrary. I know many are tired, disappointed, and in disbelief. Many wonder what their country truly is and where it might go. All of these are natural reactions to where America is today. But I have seen over the course of my lifetime that victories are rarely easy and the struggle for healing and hope takes time and perseverance, because the forces of hate and lies are always easier to summon.

There is a lot that is broken, deeply broken. But there are millions upon millions of our fellow citizens who wake up each morning, undaunted, ready to do the hard work to help others and make this world a better place. Today, I honor that spirit. As long as I have breath, I will continue to fight for the America I want to live in."

I'm going to try to follow this last paragraph and keep hoping for a better future.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[candrew]

The question that does loom is what's next? Why did so many support Trump with all that he has done? I don't think there is a single answer to that question. At the same time, one can also ask why did so many vote to reject an incumbent president? That has proven a difficult bar in American history. There are many answers to that question as well.

There are many answers but if you look at the exit polls one is more glaring than the others - working class whites and latinos have fled the democratic party. They just don't believe their ******** anymore

The democratic party needs to pivot from a centrist corporate party and start promoting programs that help working class people - Medicare for All, UBI...

 

[sirkickyass]

I am considering moving to Ukraine. My faith in America as a good place full of good people is shot.

 

[fishonjazz]

There are many answers but if you look at the exit polls one is more glaring than the others - working class whites and latinos have fled the democratic party. They just don't believe their ******** anymore

The democratic party needs to pivot from a centrist corporate party and start promoting programs that help working class people - Medicare for All, UBI...

I get them not supporting democrats but I believe the question asked was why support trump? Is he promoting Medicare for all, UBI, and programs that help working class people?

I mean trump is a horrible person and we all know it. He made a fake university. He steals from charities. He sleeps with porn stars and pays them to keep quiet. He cheats on his wives while they are pregnant. Grab them by the *****. He promotes hate. He is childish, petty, vain (look at that hair and tan), narcissistic.

I mean I could see a candidate in the near future who is a rapist or murderer or child molester getting the support of Americans and becoming president. As long as he is a white male who is pro choice, loves guns, is loud and famous, and thought to be good at business (that was a lie in regards to trump).

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[green]

Latinos ARE supporting Biden...look at AZ. BUT they AREN'T supporting him as well...look at Florida. It's almost like just because you speak spanish doesn't make you some homogenous group. Latinos need to be further broken down. Why would a latino in FL be so red and one in AZ be so blue? Because the Latinos in FL fled a country with REAL SOCIALISM so when Republicans spout off their ****ing uneducated nonsense about socialism, the latino that fled ACUTAL SOCIALISM gets scared and votes red.

We need to be better and understanding where people are coming from and better communicating with them. Because some latte drinking white college woman loves the buzzword socialism, doesn't mean that will resonate with someone who left everything looking for refuge from socialism.

 

[olden_undercover]

I get them not supporting democrats but I believe the question asked was why support trump? Is he promoting Medicare for all, UBI, and programs that help working class people?

I mean trump is a horrible person and we all know it. He made a fake university. He steals from charities. He sleeps with porn stars and pays them to keep quiet. He cheats on his wives while they are pregnant. Grab them by the *****. He promotes hate. He is childish, petty, vain (look at that hair and tan), narcissistic.

I mean I could see a candidate in the near future who is a rapist or murderer or child molester getting the support of Americans and becoming president. As long as he is a white male who is pro choice, loves guns, is loud and famous, and thought to be good at business (that was a lie in regards to trump).

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

“Are our politicians a mirror raised to us, and should we be the first to throw stones, or should we accept that maybe we get the politicians we deserve? If we want them to change, maybe we should change ourselves. Maybe we’re the ones who are divisive. Maybe we’re the ones who are narcissistic. Maybe we’re the only who are putting our interests ahead of the interests of everybody else. If you look at the way that we’re raising our kids or running our companies, I don’t know we can say that we’re better. Maybe instead of demanding that they change, maybe we should demand that we change and take some accountability for our own actions, and maybe then we’ll get the politicians we deserve.” - Simon Sinek

Edit: This is not a Trump apology, to be clear-- not by a mile. He's reprehensible and selfish. As cynical as this may be, I just think the reason we have people like him in office (because the number of horrible people elected to office isn't isolated to the current POTUS) is that we're just as reprehensible and selfish, as a majority. Voting Biden into office (and I know you agree with this, fish) isn't fixing anything.

 

[candrew]

I get them not supporting democrats but I believe the question asked was why support trump? Is he promoting Medicare for all, UBI, and programs that help working class people?

Because they believed his populist message. They believed he was going to bring back factory jobs, he was going to bring back coal, he was going to negotiate trade deals that would benefit American workers. And all their problems were was always someone else's fault....the Mexicans, the Chinese, woke pink haired girls and guys on college campuses.

 

[green]

The democrats are in a tough situation. They want to do what's right and they want to explain their platform. Their problem is no one wants to listen. Everyone wants to have some meme and a quick two second "gotcha" response then turn around and hi-five their friends for "owning" the other side.

Reality isn't that way. Democrats need to find a way to educate people on the reality of all this. Look at how un...informed the strongly leaning right posters are on here. They are clueless. They have no idea what they are saying. BUT, they have their buzzwords, they have their headlines and they can come on here, shout "BIDEN WILL SHUT DOWN THE WORLD IF HE'S PRESIDENT" with an article whose headline says that but the article says, "IF NEEDED..."

There is so much willful, embraced ignorance in this country and the left has to find a way to inform/educate people.

 

[Getting Traded]

Latinos ARE supporting Biden...look at AZ. BUT they AREN'T supporting him as well...look at Florida. It's almost like just because you speak spanish doesn't make you some homogenous group. Latinos need to be further broken down. Why would a latino in FL be so red and one in AZ be so blue? Because the Latinos in FL fled a country with REAL SOCIALISM so when Republicans spout off their ****ing uneducated nonsense about socialism, the latino that fled ACUTAL SOCIALISM gets scared and votes red.

We need to be better and understanding where people are coming from and better communicating with them. Because some latte drinking white college woman loves the buzzword socialism, doesn't mean that will resonate with someone who left everything looking for refuge from socialism.

Very true, but many of those who fled Cuba were their 1 percent or profiting from the illegal activities of the mob there (which if you didn't know was thrown out and whose leaders were imprisoned). So, they have a skewed idea of socialism. Not only that but the U.S. demonized Castro whose motivation was to bring up the people of Cuba. The problem for Castro was that he faced not merely an economic boycott by the U.S. (some of which is still ongoing) but constant pressure from U.S. intelligence to assassinate or overthrow him. If it were not for the Soviet Union, the Castro government would never have survived.

 

[green]

Very true, but many of those who fled Cuba were their 1 percent or profiting from the illegal activities of the mob there (which if you didn't know was thrown out and whose leaders were imprisoned). So, they have a skewed idea of socialism. Not only that but the U.S. demonized Castro whose motivation was to bring up the people of Cuba. The problem for Castro was that he faced not merely an economic boycott by the U.S. (some of which is still ongoing) but constant pressure from U.S. intelligence to assassinate or overthrow him. If it were not for the Soviet Union, the Castro government would never have survived.

Also very true. Which is why we can't lump "latinos" together. They are such a diverse group and to label them the same and try to talk to them the same...it won't work, as we can see with democrats falling futher and further behind in Florida. Florida is just about a red state and not a swing state anymore.

 

[Getting Traded]

Because they believed his populist message. They believed he was going to bring back factory jobs, he was going to bring back coal, he was going to negotiate trade deals that would benefit American workers. And all their problems were was always someone else's fault....the Mexicans, the Chinese, woke pink haired girls and guys on college campuses.

Basically because they are ****ing ignorant. But please tell what's the problem with people in Utah who have jobs and are well off? I've never met so many airheads in my life than here in Utah (just look at the politicians that represent the state) -- pardon me, all Utahns on the board, as there are many well-informed, intelligent people here. Wish I could find them in the general public.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There are worse places to live and most of the history of civilization is ugly. Part of the issue I have with the media and democrats is that if you don't vote the way they agree with then you are a racist, sexist, simp without brain cells. People vote for candidates for a lot of reasons. I voted against the party I traditionally have identified with... it was hard and you wouldn't believe how much grief I got. People are willing to hold their nose and vote for a ****** person because they will keep taxes low or limit business regulations etc. I voted for Biden not because of his politics or his parties politics, but because I had hoped he could bring us together or at least that the media wouldn't fan the flames as much with him at the helm. Had hoped the Republican party could return to something I could respect a bit more if Trump is gone.

I still think the majority of people are mostly good... selfish but good.

 

[magic]

The sad thing is this shows that the election can be bought by the media and giant tech companies acting as super PACs. I don't see how a Republican can win in the future when every 4 years the media can spin up a narrative causing chaos and the tech companies can censor anything bad about their Democratic candidate while highlighting only good news about their candidate and bad news about the opponent.

 

[green]

There are worse places to live and most of the history of civilization is ugly. Part of the issue I have with the media and democrats is that if you don't vote the way they agree with then you are a racist, sexist, simp without brain cells. People vote for candidates for a lot of reasons. I voted against the party I traditionally have identified with... it was hard and you wouldn't believe how much grief I got. People are willing to hold their nose and vote for a ****** person because they will keep taxes low or limit business regulations etc. I voted for Biden not because of his politics or his parties politics, but because I had hoped he could bring us together or at least that the media wouldn't fan the flames as much with him at the helm. Had hoped the Republican party could return to something I could respect a bit more if Trump is gone.

I still think the majority of people are mostly good... selfish but good.

I think this is a prevailing attitude among a lot of Republicans and I don't understand it.

"There are worse places to live"

Ok, there are. Buy why not make this place better? Why accept mediocrity when we can make it better. Other places have made it better. Other places have tried different things. Some have failed, but some have worked and if we do those things...we aren't commie socialists, we are getting better. I stayed in Utah for a loooong time because of this mentality. Man, everywhere I have lived has been so much better than Utah. It's crazy. I look back at how miserable I was there...don't settle. There are worse places to live....BUT there are BETTER places to live as well.

"Most of the history of civilization is ugly"

Again, yes. But why keep doing those things? Why continue to treat others poorly? Because your parents did it? Because you don't know a LGBTQ person and you are a little nervous? Because you don't understand? So we just stick our heads in the sand and ignore it, because "my grandparents were racist and fought for racism and we aren't that bad anymore so it's ok if I don't do anything"?

"If you don't vote they way they agree with then you are racist, sexist, simp without brain cells"

OK. Why do so many openly racist people vote for Trump? Does Biden have this issue? Does Biden publically support the racists with his actions? Does Biden tell the Proud Boys to "stand by"? And if Trump does these things, doesn't that make him a racist? And if it does and you vote for him, aren't you voting for a racist?

Same with being called a sexist. Have you not seen how Trump has treated women in the past? Have you not seen him with Epstien, talking about all the young women? Have you not seen him bragging about sexually assaulting women? Have you not seen him blocking DNA tests that would prove him innocent if he didn't rape that teenager? Have you not seen the way he talks to women in press conferences and in interviews?

Trump is sexist. That isn't up for debate. And by voting for him, that makes you supportive of a sexist.

And the simp without brain cells...I mean, look at the loudest Trump supporters on this site. Look at some of the Trump supporters who are against Biden's $400K tax plan. Look at who votes for Trump, mostly uneducated men. So, I mean...if the shoe fits.

Speaking truth that some don't want to hear isn't a me problem. If you are voting for a sexist, racist person who is making unintelligent arguments...you are what you are.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think this is a prevailing attitude among a lot of Republicans and I don't understand it.

"There are worse places to live"

Ok, there are. Buy why not make this place better? Why accept mediocrity when we can make it better. Other places have made it better. Other places have tried different things. Some have failed, but some have worked and if we do those things...we aren't commie socialists, we are getting better. I stayed in Utah for a loooong time because of this mentality. Man, everywhere I have lived has been so much better than Utah. It's crazy. I look back at how miserable I was there...don't settle. There are worse places to live....BUT there are BETTER places to live as well.

"Most of the history of civilization is ugly"

Again, yes. But why keep doing those things? Why continue to treat others poorly? Because your parents did it? Because you don't know a LGBTQ person and you are a little nervous? Because you don't understand? So we just stick our heads in the sand and ignore it, because "my grandparents were racist and fought for racism and we aren't that bad anymore so it's ok if I don't do anything"?

"If you don't vote they way they agree with then you are racist, sexist, simp without brain cells"

OK. Why do so many openly racist people vote for Trump? Does Biden have this issue? Does Biden publically support the racists with his actions? Does Biden tell the Proud Boys to "stand by"? And if Trump does these things, doesn't that make him a racist? And if it does and you vote for him, aren't you voting for a racist?

Same with being called a sexist. Have you not seen how Trump has treated women in the past? Have you not seen him with Epstien, talking about all the young women? Have you not seen him bragging about sexually assaulting women? Have you not seen him blocking DNA tests that would prove him innocent if he didn't rape that teenager? Have you not seen the way he talks to women in press conferences and in interviews?

Trump is sexist. That isn't up for debate. And by voting for him, that makes you supportive of a sexist.

And the simp without brain cells...I mean, look at the loudest Trump supporters on this site. Look at some of the Trump supporters who are against Biden's $400K tax plan. Look at who votes for Trump, mostly uneducated men. So, I mean...if the shoe fits.

Speaking truth that some don't want to hear isn't a me problem. If you are voting for a sexist, racist person who is making unintelligent arguments...you are what you are.

Homey... I voted for Biden for reasons you stated above. People are complex and nuanced. It is not just simply vote for the person I think is best or you are an uneducated redneck racist... sorry. There are ****** loud people that are openly racist that support Trump I get that. Its republicans saying Dems are all free loading socialist millennials that want something for nothing.

I am not saying don't make it better... I am not saying repeat the same ********. I am sayin if you leave because this place is so awful... you will likely find things just as awful or more awful about the place you go to. Recognizing the good here and improving on the bad is exactly what we should do. Simply bailing is not a solution. Hate and racism are more prevalent than I thought... but uncovering it is a good step in moving forward.

The fact that we have a lot of loud people asking for change is great and should give hope. Maybe... just maybe there are changes that need to be made to the approach Dems are taking because it seems to be biting them in the ***.

Many of the folks I know that are voting for Trump aren't uneducated and they aren't dumb. They are protecting the pocket book and are afraid of spinning off into socialism. Real or not that is what they vote on. The whole all or nothing... you are either with us or you are a piece of **** is not an attitude that wins people to your cause. Don't worry about the racist flag flying gun toting assholes... speak to the people in the middle... that's where most people land.

My views on politics are way too simple and likely outdated. I'd like as much equality as possible, I'd like small efficient government, and I'd like to be safe and given an opportunity to prosper.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think this is a prevailing attitude among a lot of Republicans and I don't understand it.

"There are worse places to live"

Ok, there are. Buy why not make this place better? Why accept mediocrity when we can make it better. Other places have made it better. Other places have tried different things. Some have failed, but some have worked and if we do those things...we aren't commie socialists, we are getting better. I stayed in Utah for a loooong time because of this mentality. Man, everywhere I have lived has been so much better than Utah. It's crazy. I look back at how miserable I was there...don't settle. There are worse places to live....BUT there are BETTER places to live as well.

"Most of the history of civilization is ugly"

Again, yes. But why keep doing those things? Why continue to treat others poorly? Because your parents did it? Because you don't know a LGBTQ person and you are a little nervous? Because you don't understand? So we just stick our heads in the sand and ignore it, because "my grandparents were racist and fought for racism and we aren't that bad anymore so it's ok if I don't do anything"?

"If you don't vote they way they agree with then you are racist, sexist, simp without brain cells"

OK. Why do so many openly racist people vote for Trump? Does Biden have this issue? Does Biden publically support the racists with his actions? Does Biden tell the Proud Boys to "stand by"? And if Trump does these things, doesn't that make him a racist? And if it does and you vote for him, aren't you voting for a racist?

Same with being called a sexist. Have you not seen how Trump has treated women in the past? Have you not seen him with Epstien, talking about all the young women? Have you not seen him bragging about sexually assaulting women? Have you not seen him blocking DNA tests that would prove him innocent if he didn't rape that teenager? Have you not seen the way he talks to women in press conferences and in interviews?

Trump is sexist. That isn't up for debate. And by voting for him, that makes you supportive of a sexist.

And the simp without brain cells...I mean, look at the loudest Trump supporters on this site. Look at some of the Trump supporters who are against Biden's $400K tax plan. Look at who votes for Trump, mostly uneducated men. So, I mean...if the shoe fits.

Speaking truth that some don't want to hear isn't a me problem. If you are voting for a sexist, racist person who is making unintelligent arguments...you are what you are.

Quick hitter... I do understand where you are coming from though. It is kind of insane when I talk with members of my wife's family about Trump and they are like "is he really that bad". Why yes, yes he is. And it likely is much worse than we've actually seen. They tend to blow off the things he says as him just running his mouth.
Its sad. So I know a lot of good people that voted for Trump and I think they are wrong. I couldn't put my name on his vote... I just couldn't. I understand why they did... kind of.

 

[One Brow]

The sad thing is this shows that the election can be bought by the media and giant tech companies acting as super PACs. I don't see how a Republican can win in the future when every 4 years the media can spin up a narrative causing chaos and the tech companies can censor anything bad about their Democratic candidate while highlighting only good news about their candidate and bad news about the opponent.

The media causes chaos on all sides of the electoral spectrum, and the tech companies only restrict unreliable information or outright lies. Are you saying conservatives can't win without lying?