The case for keeping Conley, Gobert - and running it back!

[Joncolton]

The above basically makes the point. You add a couple of good defensive wings, and some rebounding and defense at the 4 spots - the Jazz could be right up there with the best of the best.

That being said, the Lakers, Clippers, Warriors and every other top team is still going to improve THEIR rosters as well.


However, the idea that the Jazz RUN IT BACK with the same crew isn't as mathematically insane as some people around here act like it is.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The above basically makes the point. You add a couple of good defensive wings, and some rebounding and defense at the 4 spots - the Jazz could be right up there with the best of the best.

That being said, the Lakers, Clippers, Warriors and every other top team is still going to improve THEIR rosters as well.


However, the idea that the Jazz RUN IT BACK with the same crew isn't as mathematically insane as some people around here act like it is.

This ain't new... I been saying this a while. I think it actually makes the case for moving Mike (if something good was available). The best lineup is the lineup we ran when Mike was out... sub Mike in for Joe and it gets slightly worse. If Mike is on the roster he starts because "he's Mike Effing Conley". Joe struggled off the bench.

So if you found something that gave current and future rotation value and maybe picked up an asset while doing it... why the hell not.

The case against it is that Mike wasn't great and he has done this before... has an on year and an off year... sometimes injuries factor in. If he's better and we get Joe some help on the second unit are we a ton better? Might be... is the defense good enough with two small guards to be an elite team? That is my biggest issue.

I wouldn't trade him for nothing though... If we lose JC then there is a clear and great bench scorer role that Mike could/should occupy. Hopefully the Jazz have already started negotiating with JC and know where he stands. Brian Windhorst has basically said teams are already talking with agents and that there are basically already deals agreed to. So hopefully we already know and can go into the draft with the knowledge that JC is likely coming back or gone.

 

[LoPo]

So trade Conley so we can boost our bench. The dumb trade for him thinned our our bench anyway. We should have had Crowder, Grayson, Korver and a 1st rounder instead.

Such a dumb trade.

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

So trade Conley so we can boost our bench. The dumb trade for him thinned our our bench anyway. We should have had Crowder, Grayson, Korver and a 1st rounder instead.

Such a dumb trade.

I agree. If we can trade mike in a 2 for 1 or in the philly case a 3 for 1. Harris has a bad contract but I’m guessing had the jazz not gone with mike and bogie they would’ve offered the same if given the opportunity. This gives us a mulligan with access to a pick and another cheap young rotation player. It’s be really nice to dump Ed in the deal as well. I like Harris and think he would be awesome next to bogie and playing as the third to Gobert and don. I’ve got a finger crossed for a trade with philly for mike and another finger crossed that new jazz owner smith is not as tight budgeted as the millers and we get to keep jc and spend our MLE too.


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[homeytennis]

Jae is a free agent. Lets reunite him and Favs and resign JC.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Good argument to keep Mike. I think it shows we wont make a desperation move. We do need to prioritize depth. If that can be done without moving mike, then so be it.

Trading Conley for Al Horford is a desperation move. However, Tobias Harris and Thybulle would be a very dynamic pickup by giving us players that can do what we need them to do while moving Spida to the point.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Good argument to keep Mike. I think it shows we wont make a desperation move. We do need to prioritize depth. If that can be done without moving mike, then so be it.

Trading Conley for Al Horford is a desperation move. However, Tobias Harris and Thybulle would be a very dynamic pickup by giving us players that can do what we need them to do while moving Spida to the point.

The Horford deal would come with assets. Bojan does what Harris does but is arguable better and definitely cheaper. I don’t see how the lineup data supports keeping Conley... subbing Joe in on that lineups makes it better so it isn’t something Conley is doing that moves the needle. The redundancy is nice but that’s a big *** contract for redundancy. Having a stretch big that can also pass would add something we’ve never had... and it likely comes with a pick or two or Thybulle and a pick. Personally I’d rather get Milton as I think Thybulle is a bit overrated.

 

[NAOS]

Didn’t we have the best five-man combo back with Jae Crowder? Such a stat didn’t prevent them from going in a different direction.

But yeah, 95%+ chance we runnin it back

 

[jom2003]

Depends on if we can keep JC. If we lose him we are gonna be running a 6man rotation with a bench featuring Bradley, Davis, Niang, Oni, tucker, etc. We ain't gonna compete with a squad as thin as that.

 

[SteakNEggs]

So trade Conley so we can boost our bench. The dumb trade for him thinned our our bench anyway. We should have had Crowder, Grayson, Korver and a 1st rounder instead.

Such a dumb trade.

I stole this from some random sports or radio show but name one team who's bench was responsible for an NBA championship.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

The Horford deal would come with assets. Bojan does what Harris does but is arguable better and definitely cheaper. I don’t see how the lineup data supports keeping Conley... subbing Joe in on that lineups makes it better so it isn’t something Conley is doing that moves the needle. The redundancy is nice but that’s a big *** contract for redundancy. Having a stretch big that can also pass would add something we’ve never had... and it likely comes with a pick or two or Thybulle and a pick. Personally I’d rather get Milton as I think Thybulle is a bit overrated.

Horford will make $26 million in 2023. He is 34 now and will be 38 by the time his current contract ends. VOMIT! Horford himself said he couldn't believe anyone would offer him that contract.

Tobias is 28, more dynamic, can switch to play 2 - 5 positionally, is longer, taller, faster, a better shooter, and would come with other assets because philly doesn't want to pay for his contract which comes off the books just 1 year after Horfords when tobias is 31. He doesnt fit in philly either.

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

Conley for Harris, Milton and a 1st? Sign me up all ****ing day!


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[GVC]

Horford will make $26 million in 2023. He is 34 now and will be 38 by the time his current contract ends.

Horford has only 2 fully guaranteed seasons remaining on his deal. He'll be 36 after those two seasons, after which the Jazz would have the option of paying him $26.5 million in 22-23 (after which he'll be 37) or buying him out for $14.5 million.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Horford has only 2 fully guaranteed seasons remaining on his deal. He'll be 36 after those two seasons, after which the Jazz would have the option of paying him $26.5 million in 22-23 (after which he'll be 37) or buying him out for $14.5 million.

Tobias has basically 100M more on his deal but people still think Horfords contract is trash and Tobias is okay.

I think we’d all like a functional stretch big... the ones on the FA market ain’t that great... so at least Horford gives us a premium stretch big. It would all depend on the other stuff we got in the deal. They may be willing to wait things out and not sweeten the pot much. I had more confidence in a rip off trade for us before Morey steeped into their GM job.

 

[LogGrad98]

The only case for running it back is the FO can't admit a mistake. How long did they run back Corbin when it was OBVIOUS it wasn't working? No way in hell they move Conley, at all. We will probably sign something with the MLE but that's about it. Get ready for another season of Conley and Niang, and another likely first round exit.

 

[idiot]

Tobias ... can switch to play 2 - 5 positionally,

Um, no. He's really only goes 3 - 4.

Tobias is ... is longer, taller, faster, a better shooter

Who is the comparison with, Bojan or Horford? In neither case does your full list fit.

 

[LoPo]

I stole this from some random sports or radio show but name one team who's bench was responsible for an NBA championship.

Manu Ginobli coming from the bench was the difference between them being good and title winners.

But I get your point

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[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Horford has only 2 fully guaranteed seasons remaining on his deal. He'll be 36 after those two seasons, after which the Jazz would have the option of paying him $26.5 million in 22-23 (after which he'll be 37) or buying him out for $14.5 million.

Ok, so pay grandpa for 2.5 years guaranteed instead of 3. Who wants to buy someone out of a contract at 36 going on 37 by the end of the season for $14.5 million?

Tobias is 6 years younger. SIX!!! 28 is prime by nba standards.

Tobias can defend the 2. He is a fluid, athletic 6'8", long, can shoot, and is the prototypical interchangeable body type in today's league.

Horford has averaged 12/13 ppg and 7 rebounds. Harris has averaged 20 ppg and 8 rebounds the last 4 years. Harris didn't have a bad year, he just doesn't fit the philadelphia-76ers. Horford had a down year and his stats are dropping.

Harris is spendy, yes. But if he is part of a fire sale, why take the 1936 chevy when you can have a 2028 Porsche when both net you other assets?

 

[Joncolton]

I stole this from some random sports or radio show but name one team who's bench was responsible for an NBA championship.

Didn't the Lakers just win a championship without their starting point guard and with Alex Caruso stepping up into a key role?

Ditto the Raptors and Fred VanFleet. Benches matter.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ok, so pay grandpa for 2.5 years guaranteed instead of 3. Who wants to buy someone out of a contract at 36 going on 37 by the end of the season for $14.5 million?

Tobias is 6 years younger. SIX!!! 28 is prime by nba standards.

Tobias can defend the 2. He is a fluid, athletic 6'8", long, can shoot, and is the prototypical interchangeable body type in today's league.

Horford has averaged 12/13 ppg and 7 rebounds. Harris has averaged 20 ppg and 8 rebounds the last 4 years. Harris didn't have a bad year, he just doesn't fit the philadelphia-76ers. Horford had a down year and his stats are dropping.

Harris is spendy, yes. But if he is part of a fire sale, why take the 1936 chevy when you can have a 2028 Porsche when both net you other assets?

Is there another Tobias Harris in the league that I don’t know about? Because this does not fit the description. Specifically the defensive part. Tobias can guard mostly 4s and some bigger threes. Would get smoked by 2s. He is not a plus defender at all. His defense is similar to Bojan but he rebounds more. Not as good of a shooter and part of the reason Philly sucked is no one could create a shot. They were begging Tobias to be that guy and he wasn’t.

I like Harris and think he’d be better in our system but I’m not sure he’s an upgrade over Bojan. He makes like 160M over the next 4 years.