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Lockout!!!

Wow--I didn't expect to agree with something that rustbucket writes.

It would be totally appropriate for, say, the governors or mayors of cities/states suffering from the NBA lockout to band together and approach the owners, NBA leadership, and/or the players and tell 'em to get a deal done. Given that the both the union and the NBA have agreed to stay hush-hush (at least through the mediation process) having some outside peer pressure--out in the public--would hopefully help the process along. Heck, they can approach both sides privately first if they want.

I'd suggest taking it to the national Congress, given that they've stuck their noses in sports before (e.g., drugs in baseball), but many of them would be reluctant to ruffle the feathers of (or support) the union--even one in which the average salaray is several million dollars.
It would really create an interesting dynamic if the local governments could do this, but in reality I doubt they have any leverage. The owners are probably obligated to pay rent whether the games are held or not, but it seems extremely unlikely that they have a contractual liability for the number of fans they are required to draw or the economic impact those fans are required to have.
 
LOL. That's all this world needs. More government intervention. SAVE US OBAMA!

Are you really this dumb? The government already intervened previously by spending hundreds of millions on the arenas. Now you object to further intervention to actually get some return for that money?
 
It would really create an interesting dynamic if the local governments could do this, but in reality I doubt they have any leverage. The owners are probably obligated to pay rent whether the games are held or not, but it seems extremely unlikely that they have a contractual liability for the number of fans they are required to draw or the economic impact those fans are required to have.
I wasn't susggesting that governments get involved in order to enforce contracts; I was suggesting that government leadership are justified to get involved in order to increase the pressure on owners and players to come to a deal in order to restore or improve the positive economic impact of an NBA season on their respective communities. In other words, I'm suggesting that government pressure helps the little guy (i.e., the thousands of people who rely on or benefit from the NBA economically who are now being hurt by the delay in an agreement).
 
1) utah had the 7th highest payroll last year as one of the smallest markets in the league...how did they expect to make a profit? there is no system possible in which the jazz can maintain that kind of payroll relative to other teams and still be profitable. Any move to a more punitive cap will only make it harder for a team like utah to compete.

2) that graph has operating income at pretty much the same level, in absolute terms, as it has ever been. Not sure how that entitles the owners to a greater share of revenue

3) if the issue is truly that the cost of doing business is growing faster than revenues, the fair solution is to calculate each years player salary pool based off of the previous years salary pool + rate of revenue growth - rate inflation.
That is not being offered, because this is about bullying labor.
 
if i were in charge of the players unions i would start collecting 10% dues every year for the next 10 years and then have the players union start their own league. the owners contribute nothing.
 
1) utah had the 7th highest payroll last year as one of the smallest markets in the league...how did they expect to make a profit?
By increasing the owners' share to rise in line with that of other major sports teams.

Based on the article I cited, the increased player share just to the players' current offer would've put Utah into the plus column. Moving the share to 50-50, plus some more generous revenue sharing (which the Lakers and others have reportedly expressed an openness to), would take care of probably all but a couple of teams.

Glad that you are becoming less itinerant in this regard <<sigh>>.

there is no system possible in which the jazz can maintain that kind of payroll relative to other teams and still be profitable. Any move to a more punitive cap will only make it harder for a team like utah to compete.
Not clear. Depends on whether the reduced ability for teams to overpay for players can compensate for the tendency for players to go to teams in larger and/or more attractive markets. But there are only so many such attractive teams, so I am optimistic that a harder cap would be a slight benefit to teams like Utah. There are only so many "superstars" to go around, so while it will continue to be tough for small-market teams to attract two or three franchise players at a time, they might have a better chance at one or two when money is less of a factor (and when the highly attractive teams are "filled up"). The rest of the talent gap between the elites and the other superstars can be partially compensated for by good-quality coaching and player development--such as a play-for-performance policy that includes minimum minutes for young players on a regular basis.

I'm also in support, though, of the owners offering a softer cap as a concession to get a deal done sooner. In these economic times, even the most wealthy teams are less likely to overpay IMHO, especially if they agree to more liberal revenue sharing for the have-not teams.

2) that graph has operating income at pretty much the same level, in absolute terms, as it has ever been. Not sure how that entitles the owners to a greater share of revenue
Like with the rest of the country, the problem is the income disparity. While 5 or 10 teams are in good shape, many others are struggling. Unlike our corrupt government representatives, most of whom seem to have little regard for anyone but the wealthy (especially their donors), the less-fortunate owners are pushing for a bigger share of the pie, even if it involves revenue sharing, and it appears that at least some of the "haves" recognize that they it least mildly depend on the other teams for their success. (It won't be surprising if a team or two folds/moves anyway.)

3) if the issue is truly that the cost of doing business is growing faster than revenues, the fair solution is to calculate each years player salary pool based off of the previous years salary pool + rate of revenue growth - rate inflation.

That is not being offered, because this is about bullying labor.
No; that's not being offered because it's more complicated, and because a revenue share in line with other major teams accomplishes the same goal. Also, your more complicated formula makes no accounting for increased legitimate non-salary operating costs. With a more balanced (e.g., 50-50) operating share, the owners still retain (nearly) all of the risk, and the calculations are less complicated.

I still continue to be amazed how you passionately defend these millionaire athletes who are among the highest paid in professional sports. You'd make a great commentator on Fox News :( -- or simply a troll in sheep's clothing.
 
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I wasn't susggesting that governments get involved in order to enforce contracts; I was suggesting that government leadership are justified to get involved in order to increase the pressure on owners and players to come to a deal in order to restore or improve the positive economic impact of an NBA season on their respective communities. In other words, I'm suggesting that government pressure helps the little guy (i.e., the thousands of people who rely on or benefit from the NBA economically who are now being hurt by the delay in an agreement).
I realize that. The interesting thing would be if the governments actually had any leverage. Unless there's some enforceable clause in the contract I don't think they do.
 
I realize that. The interesting thing would be if the governments actually had any leverage. Unless there's some enforceable clause in the contract I don't think they do.

They should just tell the owners if you don't agree to a deal we will tax the **** out of you and say goodbye to tax breaks due to owning an NBA team.
 
I realize that. The interesting thing would be if the governments actually had any leverage. Unless there's some enforceable clause in the contract I don't think they do.
Governments probably don't have legal leverage (although maybe there is something in some of the arena leasing contracts that would give them power to legally push them to an agreement, which is unlikely).

But if you're don't acknowledge that public entities can put public pressure on private ones (and vice-versa), then do a Bachmann-style google search and you'll find it.
 
For those claiming race has anything to do with this I would like to include the NHL in there with it and as pasty red head I could finally be included. Seriously though the NHL players made HUGE concessions and there was no race issues with that, but I know emotions and opinions can get pretty heated and that's not my intent.
 
lol.... Amare's such an idiot...

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700189314/NBA-players-starting-a-new-league-Get-serious.html

Amare Stoudemire, the New York Knicks' star player, thinks he knows what the players can do if the upcoming NBA season is canceled. He and the other players have got it all figured out, and he wants you to know that he's "very, very serious" about it.

"If (the lockout doesn't) resolve then we're thinking about starting our own league," he says.

The devil is in the details. Do Stoudemire and the other players — if there really are other players considering this idiotic idea — have any idea what they would be getting into? Does he realize he would have to build and finance the construction of arenas or convince politicians to build them with public funding? Is he prepared to negotiate broadcasting rights? Or player salaries? Can he sell tickets?

Stoudemire not only won't make more money, he'll probably make less. He might have to take a pay cut or work without pay for a time while getting the league off the ground, using some of his own cash to finance this venture. He would have to actually work for a living. He would have to work more than the two or three hours he spends at practice or the 82 nights he plays games. He couldn't spend his free time playing video games and rolling with his homies. He would have to have a real grown-up job. He would have to sacrifice and work and use his tiny, previously unused brain.

The players don't realize how good they have it. What other business pays its employees 57 PERCENT OF ALL REVENUES!!! Not profits, but revenues. The answer is none. Nothing even close to that. They don't realize that the owners are supposed to make more money than the players because they're the ones who are incurring the risk when they finance teams and arenas. It's the way it works in the real world.
 
For those claiming race has anything to do with this I would like to include the NHL in there with it and as pasty red head I could finally be included. Seriously though the NHL players made HUGE concessions and there was no race issues with that, but I know emotions and opinions can get pretty heated and that's not my intent.
The players did make huge concessions, but this season they'll be collecting 57% of revenues because their share is on a sliding scale depending on total revenues AND there is a very good revenue sharing model in place. The owners won't consider either of those sensible ideas.
 
I don't understand how players can collectively bargin anything else besides BRI. Because salary cap and revenue sharing is thing that the league should only have a say in. If the players want to work for the organization they should have to follow the rules that are set by the owners. I can't go to my job and not follow the rules that they have set and that they should negotiate with me all of their business decisions.
 
if i were in charge of the players unions i would start collecting 10% dues every year for the next 10 years and then have the players union start their own league. the owners contribute nothing.

Once again, a really dumb post. Why the heck would the players agree to something like this. Do you really think they care about giving 10% of their checks to future players? So dumb. This is like me paying social security only when I finally retire, I don't get a dime .... oh wait.
 
I don't understand how players can collectively bargin anything else besides BRI. Because salary cap and revenue sharing is thing that the league should only have a say in. If the players want to work for the organization they should have to follow the rules that are set by the owners. I can't go to my job and not follow the rules that they have set and that they should negotiate with me all of their business decisions.

It's called a union. Research it.
 
if i were in charge of the players unions i would start collecting 10% dues every year for the next 10 years and then have the players union start their own league. the owners contribute nothing.

A great idea!! If the players are serious about leaving a legacy for future players (and I think they are, even though they're also serious about getting their own money now), this may be the best thing possible for them. If they do this right (wisely make a plan that wouldn't benefit just the top 50 players), it will give them serious leverage in the next CBA negotiations. They may not be able to hold out for what they want in this agreement, but it will put them on a much stronger footing many years into the future.
 
The owners won't consider either of those sensible ideas.

...the ONLY thing sensible is for the owners to shut down the league until the players agree to a 50/50 split.....a hard salary cap.....and have all players scrap those jailhouse tats off with broken beer bottles!
 
Once again, a really dumb post. Why the heck would the players agree to something like this. Do you really think they care about giving 10% of their checks to future players? So dumb. This is like me paying social security only when I finally retire, I don't get a dime .... oh wait.

I'm pretty sure TIS is suggesting that current earners paying into the "new league fund" would have proportional shares of the league's value on the other end.
 
I'm pretty sure TIS is suggesting that current earners paying into the "new league fund" would have proportional shares of the league's value on the other end.
A lot of people don't seem to grasp that the players could hire people to run these franchises that they would collectively own, much like the current owners do.

I don't know that it would work that well, but if the season is lost, it would give the players some time to explore the viability of a project like that. That Amare didn't go to college is irrelevant.
 
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