Jazz Offseason Plan

[cowhide]

Took more shots and hit them with much better accuracy. What the f point are you trying to make?

The "margins" or "difference" is Paul being that much better than Mike.

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I wasn't talking about CP3 and Mike. I agree CP3 is better than Mike, but you cannot just compare stats if you exclude the number of shots. Look I think DM is better than Booker but the margin is not huge like some people are saying. I will keep DM over both DL and DB for a few different reasons but the margin is not wide as some people claim.

 

[LoPo]

I wasn't talking about CP3 and Mike. I agree CP3 is better than Mike, but you cannot just compare stats if you exclude the number of shots. Look I think DM is better than Booker but the margin is not huge like some people are saying. I will keep DM over both DL and DB for a few different reasons but the margin is not wide as some people claim.

I can't speak for everybody on here, but I know without a doubt that Donovan Mitchell is better than Devin Booker. I don't think he's a ton better, but he's better.

The amount of shots argument used against Don doesn't make any sense to me.

If Booker took as many shots as Don, his efficiency numbers wouldn't look good at all. People would ask - should he be shooting that much if Paul, Bridges, Payne, Crowder and others could take better, more open looks?

If Don took less shots, every single sane person would ask the question - if you are shooting that efficiently, why aren't you shooting more? Don is taking more shots for two reasons - #1 he's really good at shooting the ball and #2 we really don't have many teammates who are good at scoring come playoff time. Rudy, Royce, Favors and missing Mike can't score freely. Bojan is often covered up which leaves Clarkson.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

So here’s the “plan” as best I can tell:

(1) “Err towards continuity” and try to run back the entire flawed core and cross our fingers Conley stays;
(2) draft poorly, likely someone that can’t play defense;
(3) give up a future pick to trade Derrick Favors, only to watch whomever we traded him to somehow immediately flip him for a pick (it was at this moment when I saw this happen with Ed Davis that I knew our FO was dumb)
(4) Sign some old, crusty vets to minimums, bring back all of our “developmental” guys;
(5) Bid against ourselves to re-sign Niang for an overpay;
(6) Go deep into the tax for a team that will never win a title;
(7) go full thermal-nuclear next summer and tear the building down when Don requests a trade after we lose before the conference finals.

Our big offseason addition will be Matt Thomas due to all of the development he did over the summer.

Did I miss anything?

I almost find myself hoping Conley leaves for nothing if for no other reason than it will force the FO to do something besides sit on one hand with a finger up the nose on the other hand.

 

[fishonjazz]

Let’s get back to the purpose of this board... who is the finals mvp... Jae or Craig? @fishonjazz who ya got?

Co MVP's. Craig and Tucker.

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[fishonjazz]

So here’s the “plan” as best I can tell:

(1) “Err towards continuity” and try to run back the entire flawed core and cross our fingers Conley stays;
(2) draft poorly, likely someone that can’t play defense;
(3) give up a future pick to trade Derrick Favors, only to watch whomever we traded him to somehow immediately flip him for a pick (it was at this moment when I saw this happen with Ed Davis that I knew our FO was dumb)
(4) Sign some old, crusty vets to minimums, bring back all of our “developmental” guys;
(5) Bid against ourselves to re-sign Niang for an overpay;
(6) Go deep into the tax for a team that will never win a title;
(7) go full thermal-nuclear next summer and tear the building down when Don requests a trade after we lose before the conference finals.

Our big offseason addition will be Matt Thomas due to all of the development he did over the summer.

Did I miss anything?

I almost find myself hoping Conley leaves for nothing if for no other reason than it will force the FO to do something besides sit on one hand with a finger up the nose on the other hand.

Hi chicken little

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[Ineptimusprime]

Hi chicken little

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The sad thing is, my above described offseason would make more sense than whatever the **** the FO was doing last offseason.

 

[Bodhi]

Hi chicken little

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Problem is he's not wrong

 

[fishonjazz]

Problem is he's not wrong

Well I feel like the jazz don't always draft poorly. I think Rudy and Mitchell were pretty good picks for when we took them.
I also don't think that we don't ever draft for defense. I don't think we drafted Udoka because he is similar to Jokic or something. I feel like we drafted him for his defense more than his offense.
I mean much of his post was correct but he was also tryimg to be as negative as possible and go worst case scenario.
We actually had a pretty dang good team this past season imo. I don't think you can do EVERYTHING wrong constantly (like his post seemed to insinuate) and have the #1 seed and best record in the league, defensive player of the year, 3 all stars, 6th man of the year (and runner up), coach of the year candidate, and runner up for executive of the year. Plus I like our new owner and enjoyed the addition of Dwayne Wade.

But ya, what a crappy franchise that can't get anything right. Jazz just totally suck top to bottom and I'm sure everything they will do (or not do) this off season will be the worst thing ever.

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[oneye]

Here's the Jazz payroll over the next few years, they really need Trent Forrest, Hughes, and another draft pick or two to work out during that time, and hope to find some talent like Ingles again or something. Re-sign Mike and there's no cap space any time soon. I really don't know exactly what I'd do. If you don't re-sign Mike you could open yourself up for some cap space in a next summer, but obviously you put yourself on the hot seat with Donovan, and Rudy gets another year older. Sometimes it feels like the best realistic route is take a step back for a year (or two) and regather for a real run, but I don't think Mitchell would go for it, nor do I think you have the time to do it with him. Would love if that was a straight 5 year contract with no option about right now, it's still truly unbelievable they gave him that and yes it's going to bite them in the *** when it comes down to it.

Utah Jazz Team Payroll | Basketball-Reference.com

Payroll summary for the Utah Jazz

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[oneye]

Well I feel like the jazz don't always draft poorly. I think Rudy and Mitchell were pretty good picks for when we took them.
I also don't think that we don't ever draft for defense. I don't think we drafted Udoka because he is similar to Jokic or something. I feel like we drafted him for his defense more than his offense.
I mean much of his post was correct but he was also tryimg to be as negative as possible and go worst case scenario.
We actually had a pretty dang good team this past season imo. I don't think you can do EVERYTHING wrong constantly (like his post seemed to insinuate) and have the #1 seed and best record in the league, defensive player of the year, 3 all stars, 6th man of the year (and runner up), coach of the year candidate, and runner up for executive of the year. Plus I like our new owner and enjoyed the addition of Dwayne Wade.

But ya, what a crappy franchise that can't get anything right. Jazz just totally suck top to bottom and I'm sure everything they will do (or not do) this off season will be the worst thing ever.

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The Jazz are and have always been a solid franchise, now go from good to great for a few years.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Well I feel like the jazz don't always draft poorly. I think Rudy and Mitchell were pretty good picks for when we took them.
I also don't think that we don't ever draft for defense. I don't think we drafted Udoka because he is similar to Jokic or something. I feel like we drafted him for his defense more than his offense.
I mean much of his post was correct but he was also tryimg to be as negative as possible and go worst case scenario.
We actually had a pretty dang good team this past season imo. I don't think you can do EVERYTHING wrong constantly (like his post seemed to insinuate) and have the #1 seed and best record in the league, defensive player of the year, 3 all stars, 6th man of the year (and runner up), coach of the year candidate, and runner up for executive of the year. Plus I like our new owner and enjoyed the addition of Dwayne Wade.

But ya, what a crappy franchise that can't get anything right. Jazz just totally suck top to bottom and I'm sure everything they will do (or not do) this off season will be the worst thing ever.

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Great post

 

[Bodhi]

Well I feel like the jazz don't always draft poorly. I think Rudy and Mitchell were pretty good picks for when we took them.
I also don't think that we don't ever draft for defense. I don't think we drafted Udoka because he is similar to Jokic or something. I feel like we drafted him for his defense more than his offense.
I mean much of his post was correct but he was also tryimg to be as negative as possible and go worst case scenario.
We actually had a pretty dang good team this past season imo. I don't think you can do EVERYTHING wrong constantly (like his post seemed to insinuate) and have the #1 seed and best record in the league, defensive player of the year, 3 all stars, 6th man of the year (and runner up), coach of the year candidate, and runner up for executive of the year. Plus I like our new owner and enjoyed the addition of Dwayne Wade.

But ya, what a crappy franchise that can't get anything right. Jazz just totally suck top to bottom and I'm sure everything they will do (or not do) this off season will be the worst thing ever.

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Yeah, to be clear there was some embellishment and not every single thing was dead on, but....

I hate this mentality of "well we could have it worse, look at all the stuff we got out of it". Well we didn't get a chip and that's why you do it.

Is that a tough bar to set of "chip or failure"? Sure, but SO many of our issues (no wing defenders, paying Fav's too much and drafting Doke etc etc) were pretty obvious to many people, yet we ran in headfirst to the playoffs happy having already wrapped up the ole consolation prize of regular season hero's.

I just dont really get a ton out best record, 3 all-stars, 6th man, DPOY (actually, listing them all out and then knowing we got bounced yet again in the semi's hurts worse) when it all amounts to the same result as a ton of other teams.

*shrug*

 

[LoPo]

The more I look at all the factors, and if Mike just leaves, I don't see why we don't trade Rudy while his value is at it's highest. That contract will be the death of us.

 

[oneye]

The more I look at all the factors, and if Mike just leaves, I don't see why we don't trade Rudy while his value is at it's highest. That contract will be the death of us.

If you take a step back Donovan will ask for a trade next offseason. There are decent avenues the Jazz could take to reroute the ship but it’s going to take a couple years and at least one season of a big step back to do so. The issue is, the dude you lavish over will ask for a trade if you try to take the foot off the gas for a season or two and steer the ship in a different direction. If you knew for sure you could have Donovan another 5/6 years and he wouldn’t throw a fit if you got worse for a couple years you could do it, the Jazz don’t have that luxury and there’s no indication of it at all. They could completely re-work the roster to be more Donovan centric for the future but it would take a couple down years, and I don’t think he’d be okay with that. He’s committed to winning him a championship, not the Jazz.

Don’t re-sign Mike, gauge the market for Rudy, let a few contracts drop, open up cap space for a year or two from now and add longer wings, but you’re looking at 2 seasons of not being a contender, before getting back to possibly being a contender and they do. not. have. that. time.

 

[NAOS]

Yeah, to be clear there was some embellishment and not every single thing was dead on, but....

I hate this mentality of "well we could have it worse, look at all the stuff we got out of it". Well we didn't get a chip and that's why you do it.

Is that a tough bar to set of "chip or failure"? Sure, but SO many of our issues (no wing defenders, paying Fav's too much and drafting Doke etc etc) were pretty obvious to many people, yet we ran in headfirst to the playoffs happy having already wrapped up the ole consolation prize of regular season hero's.

I just dont really get a ton out best record, 3 all-stars, 6th man, DPOY (actually, listing them all out and then knowing we got bounced yet again in the semi's hurts worse) when it all amounts to the same result as a ton of other teams.

*shrug*

Should’ve included a shoutout to Matt Thomas

 

[Hearsky]

Because of Conley vs Paul and Rudy vs Ayton not because of Don vs Booker.

Respect Don for **** sake.

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I haven't seen one person disrespect DM. You've clearly lost your ability to be objective on anything related to DM. DM is a top 10 player in my mind, but he isn't the greatest player that has ever played as you seem to think. His next step is finishing at the rim at a more respectable %. Some occasional defense would be nice.

 

[Bodhi]

Should’ve included a shoutout to Matt Thomas

Actually that might be one of the moves that made me the most mad. Good catch.

 

[LoPo]

I haven't seen one person disrespect DM. You've clearly lost your ability to be objective on anything related to DM. DM is a top 10 player in my mind, but he isn't the greatest player that has ever played as you seem to think. His next step is finishing at the rim at a more respectable %. Some occasional defense would be nice.

Look in the mirror. You said Van Vleet was better, and you're saying nobody has disrespected Donovan.

I'm not saying Don is the greatest player out there, but trading him for Dame would be ignorant. Don is heading into his prime while Dame is on the way out. Plus Don makes substantially less.

He plays as good of defense as Dame and Booker who you are so quick to throw praise at.

 

[NAOS]

Actually that might be one of the moves that made me the most mad. Good catch.

How do you cap off a series of moves that includes bleeding assets for the likes of Tony Bradley, Davis, and Rayjon ****ing Tucker, before then boatloading Favors?

With a light frosting of Matt Thomas. <Chefs kiss!>

 

[oneye]

Look in the mirror. You said Van Vleet was better, and you're saying nobody has disrespected Donovan.

I'm not saying Don is the greatest player out there, but trading him for Dame would be ignorant. Don is heading into his prime while Dame is on the way out. Plus Don makes substantially less.

He plays as good of defense as Dame and Booker who you are so quick to throw praise at.

Why does this matter at all if you don’t get those prime years in a Jazz uniform? It’s irrelevant.