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Jazz Offseason Plan

Saint Cy of JFC said:
I really like how everyone acts like Thomas was always destined to fail, but pretty much everyone was at least a little bit intrigued by him when the deal happened and agreed that it was a move that we wouldnt know the outcome of until he had a full year with the team.

Props to HH because he was probably the most skeptical of anyone, but even he had moments of optimism regarding the deal.

Matt Thomas - Matty Ice

jazzfanz.com jazzfanz.com
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I still think he will be a contributor next season for us provided he is not jettisoned off in a trade. We've definitely had worse options on the bench than a sharpshooting 3 point specialist.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I'm not high on Dok as a rotation player, probably unfairly due to how bad our garbage time defense was with him on the court. I don't mind coming in to the season with him as the primary backup C to see what we have there, but we better have a good backup plan in mind if he is awful.
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I don't think you should ever take anything meaningful out of garbage time. Especially defense. I think he showed some ability in the preseason. Just like Hughes I think that is the most meaningful time they got all year because the G League season was a bust.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
Who is the unverified dude, and why should we take what he says seriously?
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David Thorpe... he worked for ESPN and is a part of Truehoop... he's coached a bunch of NBA guys and prospects... he's connected.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Big, important, hard... however you want to describe those "things" they got them right. They got two all stars and good complementary pieces in various ways. The Conley deal always seemed like we paid 25% too much but it looks fine imo.

I discuss each deal as they happen... in 7 years I won't be talking about Matty Ice... just like I'm not discussing drafting Rudy.

My stance on the front office has been fairly consistent... I thought they were a B- type group... but local media made them out to be an A++ valedictorian... so any time you question a move you get the "lolz lik u knows beter".
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To be fair, it’s been awhile since the Jazz have made good small moves (besides Clarkson), but it is important to remember perspective. How many Matty Ice’s equate to one Gobert? I get that it’s been awhile and decency matters, but to chalking up the older stuff to just luck is annoying to me.

I don’t actually think the local media props up the Jazz that much. Locke of course, but he’s a literal team employee. 1280 is also owned by the Jazz. I guess they are all media but I guess have no expectations besides extreme bias from team employees.

National media props up the Jazz more than local beat writers IMO. Once KOC left the Jazz became media darings. We also became the most loose lipped team in the league.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't think you should ever take anything meaningful out of garbage time. Especially defense. I think he showed some ability in the preseason. Just like Hughes I think that is the most meaningful time they got all year because the G League season was a bust.
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I admit it's unfair to judge him off that, but I'm not sure how you could be comfortable with him as the primary backup without a decent backup plan in mind. It seems fairly likely that he is not good.
 
KqWIN said:
To be fair, it’s been awhile since the Jazz have made good small moves (besides Clarkson), but it is important to remember perspective. How many Matty Ice’s equate to one Gobert? I get that it’s been awhile and decency matters, but to chalking up the older stuff to just luck is annoying to me.

I don’t actually think the local media props up the Jazz that much. Locke of course, but he’s a literal team employee. 1280 is also owned by the Jazz. I guess they are all media but I guess have no expectations besides extreme bias from team employees.

National media props up the Jazz more than local beat writers IMO. Once KOC left the Jazz became media darings. We also became the most loose lipped team in the league.
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I don't call it luck... I just think they were solid. I can live with deals that don't work. I don't ding them for drafting Exum... the thought process was sound... it just didn't work. I don't always thing the thought process is sound and that's where I get pissy. I know late first round picks rarely work out... doesn't mean you should use them on backup centers. Matt Thomas might be worth a second round pick to some team... not a team with too many guards that are small and limited defensively.

I won't penalize a guy for losing bets... just need them to make smart/reasoned bets. Grayson Allen wasn't my first choice of guys I would want... but it made sense. The last 12 months the moves have been tough to understand.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I admit it's unfair to judge him off that, but I'm not sure how you could be comfortable with him as the primary backup without a decent backup plan in mind. It seems fairly likely that he is not good.
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I'm comfortable with smart failure. If we let him fail we get the info we need to move on... that is smart to me. Backup centers are plentiful and tbh... if we run the same scheme with the same principles and the same flawed defenders then whatever backup center we get will be doomed to failure... it just depends on how big the failure is. We will be able to find someone at the minimum or in a trade that can provide enough offensive value to not screw up the system too bad. Honestly even if you just had to rely on Juwan Morgan to be a 5 we could duct tape things together.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm comfortable with smart failure. If we let him fail we get the info we need to move on... that is smart to me. Backup centers are plentiful and tbh... if we run the same scheme with the same principles and the same flawed defenders then whatever backup center we get will be doomed to failure... it just depends on how big the failure is. We will be able to find someone at the minimum or in a trade that can provide enough offensive value to not screw up the system too bad. Honestly even if you just had to rely on Juwan Morgan to be a 5 we could duct tape things together.
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Yep, I agree with this, or at least what I think you are getting at. There is only one Rudy Gobert and we can't expect to run the same defensive scheme of funnel everything to the Center, unless Gobert is on the court. I like the idea of throwing a very different look with our second unit that would make sense to ther personnel on the floor as well as make the oponent adjust.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Yep, I agree with this, or at least what I think you are getting at. There is only one Rudy Gobert and we can't expect to run the same defensive scheme of funnel everything to the Center, unless Gobert is on the court. I like the idea of throwing a very different look with our second unit that would make sense to ther personnel on the floor as well as make the oponent adjust.
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I think you could get Mo Wagner or Muscala cheap and just say eff it... we will go 5 out if Udoka sucks... honestly bring Ersan back on a minimum if you want to try this too. You could at least buy some time to work a trade for someone. I think we could find a vet minimum center really easily to use as a safety net... the problem is that Quin will want to use that guy as Plan A.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean he didn't really imply that at all... I think its more likely he's talking bogey and Ingles plus Favs gone... maybe JC but he is a known JC hater.
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He said team won't be the same so I'm going to put Mike in the mix because I see him being problem #3 on my big board:

#1 Favors' contract
#2 Bojan's contract and shooting could be turned into more financial and defensive flexibility
#3 Mike's future contract, his constant injury situation, and his questionable fit next to Don
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think you could get Mo Wagner or Muscala cheap and just say eff it... we will go 5 out if Udoka sucks... honestly bring Ersan back on a minimum if you want to try this too. You could at least buy some time to work a trade for someone. I think we could find a vet minimum center really easily to use as a safety net... the problem is that Quin will want to use that guy as Plan A.
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For a guy who has coached so many great defensive teams, I don't think Quin is a very good defensive coach. Thinking about this makes me appreciate Gobert even more.
 
Some rumors out there:

www.hoopsrumors.com

Trade Rumors: Rubio, Ball, Knicks, Wizards, Simmons

Ricky Rubio is busy playing the point for Spain in the Olympics but a number of NBA teams are doing …
www.hoopsrumors.com www.hoopsrumors.com

- Pacers and Pels discussed Lonzo deal

- Knicks don't want to sacrifice 2022 space (not a good sign for Bojan or Favors)

- Wiz would entertain trading Rui Hachimura, Gafford or Advija in a win now move to appease Beal

- Simmons stuff
 
LoPo said:
Some rumors out there:

www.hoopsrumors.com

Trade Rumors: Rubio, Ball, Knicks, Wizards, Simmons

Ricky Rubio is busy playing the point for Spain in the Olympics but a number of NBA teams are doing …
www.hoopsrumors.com www.hoopsrumors.com

- Pacers and Pels discussed Lonzo deal

- Knicks don't want to sacrifice 2022 space (not a good sign for Bojan or Favors)

- Wiz would entertain trading Rui Hachimura, Gafford or Advija in a win now move to appease Beal

- Simmons stuff
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What do the Wiz want for Rui I wonder?
 
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