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Trade deadline discussion

Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't get the Barnes interest if it comes at the expense of Bojan. I prefer Bojan's shot making and familiarity to Barnes slightly better rebounding (his numbers will come down with Rudy). If there is some magical chairs stuff where we move Bojan for Smart and Royce and Joe for Barnes with draft stuff given out somewhere in there... then I get it. I don't think there is a big difference between Bojan and Barnes though.
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Barnes is an even bigger shot maker than Bogey. He's had three game winners for the Kings and at least one for the Mavericks I believe. His 3pt percentage is also better than Bogey this year
 
LoPo said:
Good read on Marcus Smart. Makes it seem like he should be traded but not everybody would be interested.

www.clnsmedia.com

Jeff Goodman: Celtics Have to "try and move" Marcus Smart - CLNS Media

On the latest edition of the Garden Report, Jeff Goodman gave his thoughts on why the Celtics should trade Marcus Smart.
www.clnsmedia.com www.clnsmedia.com
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I think we’ve convinced ourselves to be “too realistic” surrounding trade values with Smart. We’re talking about needing to send first round picks and such to land him. But this Boston reporter is talking about how his contract is hard to move, and another Boston person had suggested Smart and a pick for Clarkson. We’re talking about Clarkson plus a pick or Bojan. I just don’t think Smart’s market is as high as we’ve made it seem here. His efficiency is really bad. Then couple that with his contract extension kicking in next year and that’s a huge pill to swallow to a team on the tax (both us and Boston) and that doesn’t get nearly enough attention. We’d be paying him $21M in ‘25-‘26. Plus simply swapping Clarkson for him this year costs us like $10M or something when all is said and done with tax (haven’t officially run the numbers, I’ll leave that to someone else). There’s no way we send (or at least no way we should send) a first rounder to enter tax hell. He’d be costing us other players next year. I’d make them eat Udoka’s deal.
 
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infection said:
I think we’ve convinced ourselves to be “too realistic” surrounding trade values with Smart. We’re talking about needing to send first round picks and such to land him. But this Boston reporter is talking about how his contract is hard to move, and another Boston person had suggested Smart and a pick for Clarkson. We’re talking about Clarkson plus a pick or Bojan. I just don’t think Smart’s market is as high as we’ve made it seem here. His efficiency is really bad. Then couple that with his contract extension kicking in next year and that’s a huge pill to swallow to a team on the tax (both us and Boston) and that doesn’t get nearly enough attention. We’d be paying him $21M in ‘25-‘26. Plus simply swapping Clarkson for him this year costs us like $10M or something when all is said and done with tax (haven’t officially run the numbers, I’ll leave that to someone else). There’s no way we send (or at least no way we should send) a first rounder to enter tax hell. He’d be costing us other players next year. I’d make them eat Udoka’s deal.
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I think part of this is we are just used to be the red-headed stepchild of franchises who always have to add 2nd round picks to offload contracts. So we reflexively add picks or otherwise sweeten deals we might not need to. And I am not just talking about the fans. I really wonder how often we have tacked on a pick to a bad deal just so they say yes right away and we don't have to negotiate much.
 


I’m not clamoring for Holiday or anything, but this is the kind of thing where you’re completely hamstrung by emptying your cupboards entirely of all second round picks gratuitously. And the “lolz you can just buy seconds on darft night” proves laughable.
 
infection said:


I’m not clamoring for Holiday or anything, but this is the kind of thing where you’re completely hamstrung by emptying your cupboards entirely of all second round picks gratuitously. And the “lolz you can just buy seconds on darft night” proves laughable.
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You can buy a late 2nd for actual hard cash and then use it. You don't get to hold onto it and use it for a trade later. Yeah, you could trade the player you drafted, but players that don't play and are drafted that late are always worth less than a 2nd round pick whose theoretical value is always higher, and whose applied value is still a mystery.

In other words, big ****en YEP.
 
infection said:
Actually here’s a good deal:

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

NBA trade machine, make player trades
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Throw in a second if you want.

Out: Royce, Butler, Udoka.
In: Holiday, Craig.
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I believe Holiday has been in Jazz training camp a couple of times only to be cut. I remember seeing him play for the Idaho Stampede (Stars predecessor). Our talent evaluators in the front office are all aces.
 
infection said:
I think we’ve convinced ourselves to be “too realistic” surrounding trade values with Smart. We’re talking about needing to send first round picks and such to land him. But this Boston reporter is talking about how his contract is hard to move, and another Boston person had suggested Smart and a pick for Clarkson. We’re talking about Clarkson plus a pick or Bojan. I just don’t think Smart’s market is as high as we’ve made it seem here. His efficiency is really bad. Then couple that with his contract extension kicking in next year and that’s a huge pill to swallow to a team on the tax (both us and Boston) and that doesn’t get nearly enough attention. We’d be paying him $21M in ‘25-‘26. Plus simply swapping Clarkson for him this year costs us like $10M or something when all is said and done with tax (haven’t officially run the numbers, I’ll leave that to someone else). There’s no way we send (or at least no way we should send) a first rounder to enter tax hell. He’d be costing us other players next year. I’d make them eat Udoka’s deal.
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Good post.

I'm very curious to see what Boston wants for Smart.
He fits so well at Dallas, but their exception isn't big enough so they would have to send Powell or Bullock who aren't great.
Cleveland is a good fit, but they really only have Rubio's expiring that matches salaries but takes Boston over the luxury.
Does NOLA give up a first and Satoransky?

I really think Clarkson for Smart is pretty fair. Boston completely avoids the luxury but gets much needed offense off the bench.
 
Jazz in: Marcus Smart, Robert Covington
Jazz out: Bojan Bogdanovic, Jordan Clarkson

Blazers in: Reggie Bullock, 2 second round picks from (Dallas, Boston)
Blazers out: Robert Covington

Celtics in: Bojan Bogdanovic
Celtics out: Marcus Smart and 2nd round pick

Mavs in: Jordan Clarkson
Mavs out: Reggie Bullock and 2nd round pick
 
jom2003 said:
You can't be serious
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I started responding to this, but then I realized that I wasn’t sure if you thought this wasn’t a serious package to get those two guys or if you thought it was giving up too much. With the way people feel about Royce, it’s hard to tell.
 
LoPo said:
Good read on Marcus Smart. Makes it seem like he should be traded but not everybody would be interested.

www.clnsmedia.com

Jeff Goodman: Celtics Have to "try and move" Marcus Smart - CLNS Media

On the latest edition of the Garden Report, Jeff Goodman gave his thoughts on why the Celtics should trade Marcus Smart.
www.clnsmedia.com www.clnsmedia.com
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I think it's important to remember two things:
1 - Most of the chatter on message boards is directed at the topic of shortcomings and how to improve. This can lead to some real grass-is-greener thinking. Smart has some real warts, and it really is NOT working in Boston right now. But at least he provides grit and defense, and we desperately need that. Sometimes change for change sake has some value, that applies both to Smart/Celtics and Clarkson/Jazz
2 - The Jazz are pretty ****ing good and playing really ****ing bad.
 
infection said:
I think we’ve convinced ourselves to be “too realistic” surrounding trade values with Smart. We’re talking about needing to send first round picks and such to land him. But this Boston reporter is talking about how his contract is hard to move, and another Boston person had suggested Smart and a pick for Clarkson. We’re talking about Clarkson plus a pick or Bojan. I just don’t think Smart’s market is as high as we’ve made it seem here. His efficiency is really bad. Then couple that with his contract extension kicking in next year and that’s a huge pill to swallow to a team on the tax (both us and Boston) and that doesn’t get nearly enough attention. We’d be paying him $21M in ‘25-‘26. Plus simply swapping Clarkson for him this year costs us like $10M or something when all is said and done with tax (haven’t officially run the numbers, I’ll leave that to someone else). There’s no way we send (or at least no way we should send) a first rounder to enter tax hell. He’d be costing us other players next year. I’d make them eat Udoka’s deal.
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So here is the deal... JC and Smart are both kind of "eye of the beholder" guys. Their value could be negative with some teams and some teams would love them. I've heard some Boston folks say they aren't trading Marcus unless they get bowled over because he is the heart and soul of the team. He also had fights with Tatum and Brown and has called those guys out... so if they sell him off cheaper than we think then it is because that relationship isn't great imo.

The reason we will be the team that pays more is because we are a little more desperate to make "fetch" happen. They are likely looking at this as a slight pivot year and if the return in a trade is "meh" then they will pass.

The reasons I like Smart are things that go beyond the spreadsheet. They might be a bunch of hippy dippy bologna. He's a good defender but even good defenders get torched in the NBA. He's a good blend of lock down defender and help defender... but the main reason we need him is he's a competitive ******* that will fight everyone. Not sure if you watch Yellowstone... but if not I recommend it (its an after the kids go to bed show... and the wife may not be cool with it). Smart would be our Beth. The pot stirrer that fights everyone (including her own family), is not afraid to get dirty, but is fiercely loyal and comes from a good spot. We need that energy guy... who isn't above flopping for a foul... who will irritate other players... who might even fight his own teammates if he thinks they are being lazy or selfish. He straddles the line... which is exactly what we need. I think that can change the identity of a team.

I also think both JC and Smart are inefficient... but the ways they do it are different. JC does it while dribbling the **** out of the ball and I think it really hurts the guys he is on the court with... Smart is actually a ball mover... he might wake Joe up or we might get more from Rudy Gay because the ball is moving.

I won't trade Bogey for Smart unless there is other stuff coming back and we have a trade lined up for Harrison Barnes or Kenrich Williams or some other good replacement. If it is JC and a somewhat fake first (lotto protected from 2026 to 2028) then we may just have to do it. I think Smart has value if we moved him later down the road (unless he gets hurt). I don't think he ever becomes an unmovable contract just based on play.

Hopefully we get something while it is on sale... I think Smart would have more admirers than JC... so I think we likely have to pay retail or a slight premium. They have more time than us.
 
It's times like this that I see the future haul that teams like NO and OKC have and a solemn tear trickles down my cheek.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I think it's important to remember two things:
1 - Most of the chatter on message boards is directed at the topic of shortcomings and how to improve. This can lead to some real grass-is-greener thinking. Smart has some real warts, and it really is NOT working in Boston right now. But at least he provides grit and defense, and we desperately need that. Sometimes change for change sake has some value, that applies both to Smart/Celtics and Clarkson/Jazz
2 - The Jazz are pretty ****ing good and playing really ****ing bad.
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Smart’s flaws are pretty big and definitely underplayed here, but in my mind the real way around that is having to have him be. Royce replacement and not necessarily a JC replacement. He needs Royce’s role and then Royce needs to step back to the bench and fill JC’s role (well, not his role, but you know what I mean). If Smart were just plugged in to JC’s role then it would only give us about 25% of what we could get out of that trade and I don’t know that Quin is up for making the change to get to the 100%.
 
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