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Reasons you left the LDS church.

GVC said:
I realize I got a bit defensive with Jazzspazz, and as a result was aggressive. I don't disagree with this sentiment at all.

My initial comment wasn't about this element who so blatantly talks **** about people they don't know **** about. Rather, it was about people how make assertions about how their lives would be if in someone else's shoes, having never been in those shoes before. These statements sometimes have some offensive implications for people who have experienced life in both cultures in question. When a person who has been a member of some religion, for example, makes a statement about how lost, wicked and unhappy they'd be if they didn't have their church, the implication is (or at least can be) all those who aren't members of their particular faith are lost, wicked and unhappy. I wasn't punching walls and crying about this potential slight (I acknowledged that JazzSpazz may have been talking about only himself), but I thought it was worthwhile to point it out.
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Yeah, I understood where you were coming from. And I agree. There are some who characterize life outside the church as some sort of dark wasteland, fraught with torment. I think this is mostly hyperbole, and it's another facet of the culture. It's something they (and other members) are familiar with, and hear regularly. Maybe some actually believe it, but mostly I think it's just a way of expressing one's own satisfaction with the church. Self affirming.
 
Bronco70 said:
Yeah, I understood where you were coming from. And I agree. There are some who characterize life outside the church as some sort of dark wasteland, fraught with torment. I think this is mostly hyperbole, and it's another facet of the culture. It's something they (and other members) are familiar with, and hear regularly. Maybe some actually believe it, but mostly I think it's just a way of expressing one's own satisfaction with the church. Self affirming.
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Be careful, you might upset conan and log with comments like that.

And ya, it's self affirming, but it can also scare those who are unhappy with their lives in the church/Mormon community into staying. I think it's understandable why I'd speak up when that sort of sentiment is expressed, as I think my life is much improved since leaving the church, but also know how difficult it can be to do so.
 
I like that you lump me in with Conan when the only thing I did this entire thread was point out your hypocrisy. Hey, whatever makes you feel better about your two-faced self.
 
Sirkickyass said:
Guys this thread is becoming nothing but a flame war. If it doesn't stop I'm locking it.
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A shame. It was honestly a very enlightening, civilized thread up until the 12th page. The hostile tone of one poster's posts ruined things, and it transferred to everyone else. CONAN is just a textbook troll, and Im surprised he isn't on the ignored lists of the many posters that dislike him.
 
Gotta say I have enjoyed this thread.

I have one question though. Is there any point to argueing over religion? It's not like your going to change someones mind. Seeing people argue over this is absolutely hilarious to me.
 
gregbroncs said:
Gotta say I have enjoyed this thread.

I have one question though. Is there any point to argueing over religion? It's not like your going to change someones mind. Seeing people argue over this is absolutely hilarious to me.
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I didn't want to get re-involved in the thread, argh. But ya, I think there is value in discussing religion. The number of truly religious people is no where close to where it was a hundred years ago. And those who are religious, are typically not as fanatic as their equivalent ancestors. This trend is due ,at least in large part, to an explosion of knowledge and communication technology.
 
siromar said:
I didn't want to get re-involved in the thread, argh. But ya, I think there is value in discussing religion. The number of truly religious people is no where close to where it was a hundred years ago. And those who are religious, are typically not as fanatic as their equivalent ancestors. This trend is due ,at least in large part, to an explosion of knowledge and communication technology.
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LOL I think you missed the overall point. Discussing and argueing are not close to the same. Anybody fanatical enough to "argue" over religion is not changing their mind no matter how many good points you make. Religion has no basis in fact so there are no facts that are going to sway their beliefs.
 
gregbroncs said:
LOL I think you missed the overall point. Discussing and argueing are not close to the same. Anybody fanatical enough to "argue" over religion is not changing their mind no matter how many good points you make. Religion has no basis in fact so there are no facts that are going to sway their beliefs.
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And yet, it has. For hundreds of millions of people. You're taking an overly simplistic view. An argument against one's overview is almost always immediately dismissed. But not entirely forgotten. I do understand your point, though. This isn't exactly much of a debate. But it is my experience that dissent plays an important role. A few things can match the emotional self-affirmation given by the delusion of unanimity. This is the whole foundation for so-called culture.
 
GVC said:
When a person who has been a member of some religion, for example, makes a statement about how lost, wicked and unhappy they'd be if they didn't have their church, the implication is (or at least can be) that all those who aren't members of their particular faith are lost, wicked and unhappy.
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It's interesting how much you rely on assumptions, implications, and anecdotal evidence.

I realize that a lot of people aren't accustomed to that sort of conversation.
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No doubt. And that's fine. But if you are gonna sling it around like you do you need to have some thicker skin and quit getting so defensive when someone brings it back in the same manner.
 
I wonder how many people on here have spouses in the LDS church?

I'm specifically wondering about those who maybe have some doubts and weaknesses or just a broader/different view about religion and its role in your life and their relationship with their spouses?

Oftentimes, people in any walk of life,will marry someone with the perception that they think or believe a certain way and then only find out years later, that they don't....Or this belief changes over time in a way that perhaps the spouse wouldn't necessarily like....

I'm guessing that the spouses of these people are a little more different than the mainstream of that religion, are tolerant of their spouses beliefs, or else I'm guessing a lot of fights/confrontations would follow....
 
gregbroncs said:
siromar said:
LOL I think you missed the overall point. Discussing and argueing are not close to the same. Anybody fanatical enough to "argue" over religion is not changing their mind no matter how many good points you make. Religion has no basis in fact so there are no facts that are going to sway their beliefs.
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And yet, it has. For hundreds of millions of people. You're taking an overly simplistic view. An argument against one's overview is almost always immediately dismissed. But not entirely forgotten. I do understand your point, though. This isn't exactly much of a debate. But it is my experience that dissent plays an important role. A few things can match the emotional self-affirmation given by the delusion of unanimity. This is the whole foundation for so-called culture.
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I think there's some value in these types of discussions for a couple of reasons. First, it helps us know a bit more about those posting in the topic - not necessarily just their religious beliefs, but a bit about how they think in general and perhaps even reveals something about their personality. Also, there are a lot of people whose minds are not entirely made up one way or the other, or who may have specific uncertainties or questions about what they believe and it can be helpful to read what others think.

Though I will say the discussion is much better when it doesn't degenerate into name-calling and finger-pointing...



and my fingers are pointed straight at my keyboard at the moment :-)
 
The Thriller said:
I wonder how many people on here have spouses in the LDS church?

I'm specifically wondering about those who maybe have some doubts and weaknesses or just a broader/different view about religion and its role in your life and their relationship with their spouses?

Oftentimes, people in any walk of life,will marry someone with the perception that they think or believe a certain way and then only find out years later, that they don't....Or this belief changes over time in a way that perhaps the spouse wouldn't necessarily like....

I'm guessing that the spouses of these people are a little more different than the mainstream of that religion, are tolerant of their spouses beliefs, or else I'm guessing a lot of fights/confrontations would follow....
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I'd be curious to know how frequently LDS members marry outside the church and each partner remains committed to their own religion. It just seems from my very limited knowledge (pretty much this message board) that if you're married and you're a practicing member of the LDS church, your spouse is as well. How common are "mixed-marriages"?

And, I just wonder how living in SLC (or Utah in general) influences this - would it be different for a Mormon who's living somewhere outside the "culture" - I know it depends greatly on the individual, but I'm wondering if living outside the heavy influence of the LDS church in Utah would make one more or less likely to choose a spouse of the same religion. I'm sort of looking at Colton for his thoughts on this... or anyone else who's lived a significant part of their adult life outside of SLC/Utah, especially those of you who are married and have kids
 
I think that's something to avoid no matter your religion or not (dating people of different beliefs). It's obviously a pretty big deal and something that needs to be hashed out early in the courtship. I would say with almost any other relationship it would be a healthy thing to have differeing views. And differing views in marriage are a good thing a lot of the time. But I don't think religion is one of those. Too much rides on that.

My kids deal with the LDS thing in their social groups all the time. I know I do.
 
CONAN said:
I think that's something to avoid no matter your religion or not (dating people of different beliefs). It's obviously a pretty big deal and something that needs to be hashed out early in the courtship. I would say with almost any other relationship it would be a healthy thing to have differeing views. And differing views in marriage are a good thing a lot of the time. But I don't think religion is one of those. Too much rides on that.

My kids deal with the LDS thing in their social groups all the time. I know I do.
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You're married? Your wife must be named Nancy. She must LOVE it when you tell her to grow a sack. Or maybe she already has, hers might even be bigger than yours.
;-)


and Duck, thanks for the response! I love the way you boil things down to their essence: physical attractiveness trumps all :-)
I know you've lived in a number of places, have you dated primarily within the LDS community or both within and outside the community?
 
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