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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

KqWIN said:
Yeah...that's just another one of those expressions that doesn't really mean anything. He is a poor man's Rudy in the sense that he plays the same role, but how poor are we talking here? I'm saying it's VERY poor and I do not want any part of that contract whether we are trying to still win or otherwise. Capela is a great rebounder, but he is no longer a good rim runner and isn't a strong defensive anchor either.

I'm definitely not telling ATL that we like Capela. Rather tell them we want Okogwu even if we know they won't give him up. We should treat Capela as negative value and expected extra value coming back. At the very least they've got to take on Rudy Gay.
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Right... but saying we'd rather have Okongwu is nice and all but its kinda like saying we don't want Clint but we will take a few firsts instead. I actually think taking Capela might provide the incentive that gets you Okongwu.

I think the Capela deal not being ideal is going to be part of the reason you get more. Say they leave Capela out and the offer is Huerter and Collins for Rudy... then they route #16 and Capela elsewhere. I think Clint is an averageish starting center and I would not see his inclusion as this massive negative value if I am also pitching Rudy as this HUGELY positive value on a deal that is $100M more than Clint's. I'd rather accept that deal and get the extra stuff that we can because of it.

I think there is a middle ground where its Collins, Huerter, Capela, #16 for Rudy Gobert, Gay, NAW... sub Okongwu in for #16 and/or Collins in some iterations. I think if you are dead set on not taking back Capela then its like Rudy for JC, Huerter (then you spend MLE or something on center)... I'll take Capela/16 and send out Gay's salary in that scenario instead.

Capela isn't a deal breaker for me.
 
KqWIN said:
Funny enough I think it's been the focus the other way. Everyone mentioning how expensive Rudy is, but there's been less mention that the players the Jazz would be getting back cost the same and would produce wayyy less wins. That's why I've always been firm that Rudy has strong value (especially if Collins-Capela is the core) and the Jazz should demand it from them. The Hawks shopping Collins perpetually doesn't help his value either. We've been throwing around Sabonis/Vucevic level hauls. I surely hope trader Danny does not settle for that.
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Sabonis and Vuc also had much lower contracts.... you have to consider age and contract as well as production. I get JC has been in trade rumors for a while. I think he doesn't get along with Trae... Turner and others are in trade rumors a lot too. Part of the reason is other teams value them.
 
whatthe said:
Rudy has the best PER rating. Insanely productive on the offensive end. We are just getting junk for him in comparison. The advanced stats love Rudy and they hate all these players. It will be a step back according to the nerds.
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He is a great screener on the offensive end and he does very well finishing put backs and lobs.

Other than that he is very limited offensively.

His defensive impact is not as great in the playoffs as regular season and part of that is not even his fault. I don’t think the system was completely fair to him but also helped him shine at the same time.
 
whatthe said:
Rudy has the best PER rating. Insanely productive on the offensive end. We are just getting junk for him in comparison. The advanced stats love Rudy and they hate all these players. It will be a step back according to the nerds.
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Rudy was tied for 41st in playoffs PER this year while Donovan was 10th.

Last year he was 32nd and Donovan was 4th.

Sounds like his impact is limited in the playoffs. Which is why we make a deal like this. Our floor is lower without Rudy but our ceiling is higher.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Rudy was tied for 41st in playoffs PER this year while Donovan was 10th.

Last year he was 32nd and Donovan was 4th.

Sounds like his impact is limited in the playoffs. Which is why we make a deal like this. Our floor is lower without Rudy but our ceiling is higher.
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He has the best PER in the trade. That's all. Gets a few touches but draws fouls and gets a good scoring average. He frees up a ton of touches for other players. So these three players will get half of all the possessions on offense and it will be worse overall. Just crowding out better players and rotation issues. It will be a dumpster fire.
 
I still think this is the trade framework that makes sense for all parties:

Atlanta gets Rudy Gobert
Charlotte gets Capela
Jazz get Collins, Hunter and picks

Helps everybody. Charlotte gets their center. Atlanta gets their franchise center and savings. Jazz get two young players, draft assets and savings.
 
whatthe said:
He has the best PER in the trade. That's all. Gets a few touches but draws fouls and gets a good scoring average. He frees up a ton of touches for other players. So these three players will get half of all the possessions on offense and it will be worse overall. Just crowding out better players and rotation issues. It will be a dumpster fire.
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I don’t think spreading the ball around a bit more while having Donovan as our PG is bad for us. If anything we need some other playmakers offensively on our team.
 
LoPo said:
I still think this is the trade framework that makes sense for all parties:

Atlanta gets Rudy Gobert
Charlotte gets Capela
Jazz get Collins, Hunter and picks

Helps everybody. Charlotte gets their center. Atlanta gets their franchise center and savings. Jazz get two young players, draft assets and savings.
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Who is Charlotte sending out salary wise? Rozier to us?
 
Elizah Huge said:
I don’t think spreading the ball around a bit more while having Donovan as our PG is bad for us. If anything we need some other playmakers offensively on our team.
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Maybe it could work. I wouldn't bet on it, I might bet against it.

Here's my worst conspiratorial accusation...what if we intentionally tanked on the defensive end to undermine Rudy..hmmm. One of team's worst defensive performances happened the day before the voting ended for Defensive player of the year....hmmm. Maybe it is just a toxic work environment for everyone.
 
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Elizah Huge said:
Who is Charlotte sending out salary wise? Rozier to us?
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If Capela is a negative asset to everybody but Charlotte, I would imagine it would be:

Charlotte gets Capela and #16
Hawks get Gobert and Gay
Jazz get Collins, Hunter, Plumlee and #13

We would save a couple million this season, but Plumlee expires giving us plenty of money to extend Hunter.
Atlanta saves about $8 million which is big considering they seem so cost conscious.
Charlotte spends about $10 million more on Capela than they would on Plumlee, and getting Capela only costs them 3 spots in the draft.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I don’t know how you can say for certain that a combination of Collins/Hunter/Capela/16 wouldn’t produce more wins than Rudy. I just can’t fathom that line of thinking. Rudy is not Giannis.
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The comparison I'm making is Rudy to Collins+Capela because they make the same money. Rudy absolutely wins you more than those two combined for the same price and ATL should pay fairly for that. You can't short change Rudy because of his contract when you are sending worse contracts back.
 
KqWIN said:
The comparison I'm making is Rudy to Collins+Capela because they make the same money. Rudy absolutely wins you more than those two combined for the same price and ATL should pay fairly for that. You can't short change Rudy because of his contract when you are sending worse contracts back.
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And I agree with that... which is why you are getting the other stuff in the deal. There is also some added risk with Rudy's deal since it is so large individually... lots of dollars in one basket.

I don't think you can trade Rudy and at least not take a half step back (unless the return is bananas). These deals are hopefully giving some additional youth or upside later... but management is hoping not to fall too much in the short term. Its why I'd just blow it up. If the rumors of Portland being willing to do JC for 7 (with other stuff added on each side)... I'd just do the Atlanta deal and route JC to Portland and take #7 and draft assets from Atlanta... or spin off Huerter... and keep Capela if I had to. The dance we are trying to do is weird and likely fails. Capela in theory helps us short term to not fall off too much.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Right... but saying we'd rather have Okongwu is nice and all but its kinda like saying we don't want Clint but we will take a few firsts instead. I actually think taking Capela might provide the incentive that gets you Okongwu.

I think the Capela deal not being ideal is going to be part of the reason you get more. Say they leave Capela out and the offer is Huerter and Collins for Rudy... then they route #16 and Capela elsewhere. I think Clint is an averageish starting center and I would not see his inclusion as this massive negative value if I am also pitching Rudy as this HUGELY positive value on a deal that is $100M more than Clint's. I'd rather accept that deal and get the extra stuff that we can because of it.

I think there is a middle ground where its Collins, Huerter, Capela, #16 for Rudy Gobert, Gay, NAW... sub Okongwu in for #16 and/or Collins in some iterations. I think if you are dead set on not taking back Capela then its like Rudy for JC, Huerter (then you spend MLE or something on center)... I'll take Capela/16 and send out Gay's salary in that scenario instead.

Capela isn't a deal breaker for me.
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Capela isn't a deal break for me either, but I want something extra back if we're taking him on. I really don't want to enter a negotiation thinking that we're getting a cheaper, contract friendly version of Gobert. If Capela is in the deal, which he will almost certainly will be in an ATL trade, that should be seen as a negative not a positive. There's no chance I'm taking Capela and thinking, "wow we just got a really solid C and a reasonable deal". There will be teams that think that of Capela, but I do not want to be one of them. I would much rather swing him to CHO or use the extra added incentive to send him to IND for Turner.
 
KqWIN said:
Capela isn't a deal break for me either, but I want something extra back if we're taking him on. I really don't want to enter a negotiation thinking that we're getting a cheaper, contract friendly version of Gobert. If Capela is in the deal, which he will almost certainly will be in an ATL trade, that should be seen as a negative not a positive. There's no chance I'm taking Capela and thinking, "wow we just got a really solid C and a reasonable deal". There will be teams that think that of Capela, but I do not want to be one of them. I would much rather swing him to CHO or use the extra added incentive to send him to IND for Turner.
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Agree on all of this except the Turner part... which I would understand. I just think he may never be reliably healthy and the foot problems scare me. Several guys have overcome it.. his body is just kinda wonky.

I'd act real grumpy about taking Clint and see if it gets the extra first they owe to charlotte... then maybe see if you flip that for Rozier. I don't really care too much about the small guard thing... building with Donovan is likely a little tough to do if you simply say we can't have any other like sized guys.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Agree on all of this except the Turner part... which I would understand. I just think he may never be reliably healthy and the foot problems scare me. Several guys have overcome it.. his body is just kinda wonky.

I'd act real grumpy about taking Clint and see if it gets the extra first they owe to charlotte... then maybe see if you flip that for Rozier. I don't really care too much about the small guard thing... building with Donovan is likely a little tough to do if you simply say we can't have any other like sized guys.
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Yeah I was one of those people who were worried about Myles because he runs funny....would have to do their research on his foot. Could have been fake to tank, but Turner breaking down would not be surprising. If we can eek out an additional first by negotiating hard, I'm willing to send one for Turner.

I just kinda like the idea of Tuner-Collins as a frontcourt. It'd be fun to watch while Don is still here, and I think there's a decent chance one of them can make a jump.
 
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